GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-06 > 1182640290


From: "Arch Yeomans" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Megalith builders
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:11:30 -0700
References: <79d120de0705250607k430ebea0q21cd657f2b5eb39b@mail.gmail.com><200706030646.31826.didier.vernade@orange.fr>
In-Reply-To: <200706030646.31826.didier.vernade@orange.fr>


Didier

So far no proof who built Stonehenge. I'm even wondering if R1b was
even in Europe at the time of its construction. There is no y-DNA
evidence that R1b existed beyond 4,000 BC (all conjecture or
speculation so far). I get a laugh whenever somebody insists a
particular haplogroup or haplotype made some megalith or is associated
with a particular tribe. I have serious doubts with the ability to
trace y-DNA and then label an ancient tribal culture as progenitors or
associate it with a subclade. I can't comprehend such isolation
occuring with genetics. It's not like the tribal chief tested the
members for their subclades. Perhaps if anything, the minority elite
would have imposed their culture and languages (including abilities to
build huge stone circles) while the group with larger amount of DNA
material were the slaves following their master's orders.

We also tend to get over-enamored over such issues as R1b1c7 and the
U'Niell cluster being positively selected. Bad news, U'Niell dynasty
is gone and was defeated by the O'Briens who were obviously martially
superior. I don't see the greatness in cattle rustling but that seemed
to be the prerequisite for who was chief and leader of Irish tribes
and land. To me, mineral wealth and the ability to create weapons of
death and destruction determines who is more powerful, not cows. Then
again driving through some farmland most would disagree and we didn't
have fertilizer bombs back then; at least I don't think we did. I hate
to see history books be written by genetic revisionists who have no
physical evidence associating a haplogroup or its subclade with
historical monuments or moments.

The linguists have had their moment to write history in their own
eyes, now its the geneticists turn. Lessons learned from the
linguistics branch need to be applied to the genetics side as well.
Tread with caution.

Arch









On 6/2/07, Didier Vernade <> wrote:
>
> I recently updated my knowledge on megaliths. The earliest known megaliths
> have been dated as early as 4500 B.C. and the "megalithic culture" stayed
> around for 2 millenniums. Were the initiators (6500 years ago) R1b people ?
> What other haplogroup could they be ? The distribution of megaliths along the
> western coast of Europe from Portugal to Ireland is pretty much in accordance
> with R1b. What do you think ? Besides, something dramatic must have occured
> in these tribes to lead to such buildings. I am french and I nether learned
> anything precise on these subjects at school : too mysterious may be. Any
> idea ?
>
> Didier
>
>
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