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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-06 > 1182647437


From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Megalith builders
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:10:37 -0300
References: <79d120de0705250607k430ebea0q21cd657f2b5eb39b@mail.gmail.com><200706030646.31826.didier.vernade@orange.fr><f60a109d0706231611y537749d6ga821f85036f48b54@mail.gmail.com>


Indeed there are sloppy revisionists but there is also a
need to revise when new evidence (using whatever
new tools) makes it blaring obvious our previous perceptions
were wrong. We may not know exactly who built Stonehenge
but we now know the Celtic druids didn't. We are actually
learning more about who may have due to recent
contemporary finds. The same goes with the builders
of the pyramids. For a long time images of slaves being
whipped into service was the flavour. With recent finds of
villages of builders and their inscriptions we now know that
many of the pyramid builders were actually free Egyptians
giving annual service.

You seem to have a "might is right" or "the strong survives"
belief system but history has shown us many examples
where who has enough food wins. At one time Ireland's
barter system was based on cows for a good reason.
I think one could have a vault of gold and the best weapons
available but I am sure they mean nothing to them if they
can't get any food in their belly or are lucky enough to
survive the latest disease going around.

Peter


----- Original Message -----
From: "Arch Yeomans" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Megalith builders


> Didier
>
> So far no proof who built Stonehenge. I'm even wondering if R1b was
> even in Europe at the time of its construction. There is no y-DNA
> evidence that R1b existed beyond 4,000 BC (all conjecture or
> speculation so far). I get a laugh whenever somebody insists a
> particular haplogroup or haplotype made some megalith or is associated
> with a particular tribe. I have serious doubts with the ability to
> trace y-DNA and then label an ancient tribal culture as progenitors or
> associate it with a subclade. I can't comprehend such isolation
> occuring with genetics. It's not like the tribal chief tested the
> members for their subclades. Perhaps if anything, the minority elite
> would have imposed their culture and languages (including abilities to
> build huge stone circles) while the group with larger amount of DNA
> material were the slaves following their master's orders.
>
> We also tend to get over-enamored over such issues as R1b1c7 and the
> U'Niell cluster being positively selected. Bad news, U'Niell dynasty
> is gone and was defeated by the O'Briens who were obviously martially
> superior. I don't see the greatness in cattle rustling but that seemed
> to be the prerequisite for who was chief and leader of Irish tribes
> and land. To me, mineral wealth and the ability to create weapons of
> death and destruction determines who is more powerful, not cows. Then
> again driving through some farmland most would disagree and we didn't
> have fertilizer bombs back then; at least I don't think we did. I hate
> to see history books be written by genetic revisionists who have no
> physical evidence associating a haplogroup or its subclade with
> historical monuments or moments.
>
> The linguists have had their moment to write history in their own
> eyes, now its the geneticists turn. Lessons learned from the
> linguistics branch need to be applied to the genetics side as well.
> Tread with caution.
>
> Arch
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/2/07, Didier Vernade <> wrote:
>>
>> I recently updated my knowledge on megaliths. The earliest known
>> megaliths
>> have been dated as early as 4500 B.C. and the "megalithic culture"
>> stayed
>> around for 2 millenniums. Were the initiators (6500 years ago) R1b people
>> ?
>> What other haplogroup could they be ? The distribution of megaliths along
>> the
>> western coast of Europe from Portugal to Ireland is pretty much in
>> accordance
>> with R1b. What do you think ? Besides, something dramatic must have
>> occured
>> in these tribes to lead to such buildings. I am french and I nether
>> learned
>> anything precise on these subjects at school : too mysterious may be.
>> Any
>> idea ?
>>
>> Didier
>>
>>
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