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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-08 > 1186131886


From: John Plant <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Famous DNA - the Plantagenet Y-DNA project
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 10:04:46 +0100
References: <529660.72175.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <529660.72175.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


John,

I am not familiar with the Moriarty paper that you mention. However, is
this about one of those proposed lines of descent from the Merovingians?
If so, my own impression is that there is considerable skepticism about
such lines; but, as you say, it would be interesting if a Y-DNA test
could be found.

A general comment is that anyone who believes they have a noble line of
descent tends to be reluctant to have it tested - they have much to lose
and little to gain unless they have sufficient integrity to be genuinely
interested in sound evidence of the truth. This problem is in addition
to the usual one of talking strangers into taking a DNA test.

Incidentally, there is a bit of related discussion of lines involving
Plantagenet and Capet on the Plantagenet Genealogy forum, such as at:

http://genforum.genealogy.com/plantagenet/messages/764.html

but this is not a purely male line of descent. I note that you refer to
a "common male line". I should be interested in further details, if you
have them readily to hand.

John



JOHN PLUMMER wrote:
> Mr Plant,
>
> Do you know what the current consensus is on the proposed common male line origin for Capet and Plantagenet as in "The origin of Capet and Plantagenet" by George Andrews Moriarty in The New England Historical and Genealogical Register volume 107 pages 176-288?
>
> If it is not entirely disproved, I believe there are cadet branches of the Capets still around. Comparing their DNA with presumed Plantagenet DNA could be interesting.
>
> There are indications of paternal Roman ancestry for 2 men in the supposed Capet/Plantagenet male line kindred group. Gerwin is said to have been of "'Senatorial dignity' [which] seems to have been a standard Gaulish phrase indicating paternal Roman descent." "The name Wegelenzo is merely a Germanic form of the Latin Vigilantius and such Roman names were, at that time, normally given only to people of paternal Roman descent." See Professor David H Kelly, PhD, FASG, "A Note on the Robertins," The American Genealogist, volume 49, page 85.
>
> If the Plantagenets were paternally descended from Romans, it would not be from Emperors, but probably from fairly high ranking families/officials. I do not believe haplogroups R or I are likely for an aristocratic Roman family. If memory serves me right, haplogroup J2 might be a suspect. Thus, I find ysearch N3AF6 Warren of some interest, "tested" J2.
>
> John Plummer
>
> John Plant <> wrote:
> Arch,
>
> Sorry, I repeated myself a bit with this reply. I was getting confused
> with a similar discussion I have going at the moment on a similar thread at:
>
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2007-08/1185962104
>
> There is more discussion there about lines of descent though perhaps a
> little less understanding of DNA techniques, which explains why my reply
> which was perhaps a little tedious to those on this list who understand
> DNA techniques already.
>
> If you are interested in finding out more about bona fida lines of
> descent, perhaps the GEN-MEDIEVAL list is the place to go.
>
> John
>
>
> John Plant wrote:
>>
>> Arch Yeomans wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Sounds like a very massive project. It would be interesting to see a
>>> project on Roman nobility such likes as King Constantine II of
>>> Britain/Dumnonia and how connections are made to Magnus Maximus, etc.
>>> The tough part is finding the legitimate claims to that ancestry to
>>> start with.
>>>
>>> Arch
>>>
>> Arch,
>>
>> I admit that there are more problems to this sort of thing than many
>> people might have originally imagined. The situation for mt-DNA (purely
>> female lines) is that there is a prospect of obtaining the evidence from
>> ancient remains but this prospect is (at least as yet) essentially
>> non-existent for Y-DNA (purely male lines). There is a web page of
>> "Famous DNA" at:
>>
>> http://www.isogg.org/famousdna.htm
>>
>> However, as yet, this includes rather few entries.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>

--
.
. John S Plant BSc PhD MBCS CITP MInstP MIDI KLUO
Computing, Finance & IT Directorate, Keele University, England, ST5 5BG.

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