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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-08 > 1186353102


From: JOHN PLUMMER <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Famous DNA - the Plantagenet Y-DNA project
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 15:31:42 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <cc5.1800dbaf.33e5facb@aol.com>


Thanks Lindsey,

I'll have to see if the Columbia University Library has them. Wikipedia seems to think that the only decent prosopographer working today is Christian Settipani. 1990, 1997, and 2000 works by him have to do with the Plantagenet and Capet ancestries. His 1990 addendum to his Ancestry of Charlemagne gives a revised Capetian male line that he seems pretty sure of back to 570. There is a link to it in Wikipedia.

There is a 2006 webpage by Stewart Baldwin titled Geoffrey (III) Count of Gatinais, after 1028-1042x5. It uses the 1997 and 2000 Settipani works which I also need to look for at the Columbia University Library or maybe the New York Public Library.

It looks like the male line ancestry I cited previously before the great grandfather of Geoffrey V Plantagenet is actually of a stepfather and that the actual father is Hughes du Perche who had fathered two sons probably not long before 1028.

In Settipani's work it looks like the Robertins do not descend from Saint Lievin/Liutwin, son of Count Gerwin "of senatorial dignity." Instead the connection seems to be that Saint Lievin married a Robertin daughter. I would like to see the chronology worked out more fully and I'd like to be convinced that there weren't two Lievins. There is still some evidence for a male line roman ancestry for the Capets, however. A brother's son of a male line Capetian ancestor had the inheritance dispute with the son of Wegelenzo/Vigilantius, suggesting that the latter might have been a Robertin and all the Robertins/Capetians might have been of Roman paternal descent (see David H. Kelly, A Note on the Robertins, TAG).

The line given in Royalty for Commoners had a father and son in the Plantagenet line both called "Ferreol." That made me wonder if they might be connected to the Gallo-Roman family consisting of Ferreolus, and his son Tonantius Ferreolus (seen 451, 469, 475) [Ancestral Roots citing David H Kelly, NEHGR 101: 112]. Baldwin cites an early record calling Geoffrey "Ferreol." Father and son both being called Ferreol may be a mistake. A single person using the name makes it seem less likely to be a family designation, but we still have our haplotype J2 Warren. Of course what we really need is some of Lord Somerset's DNA.

Ysearch VAPJU Dauphinee from Longeville, Doubs, France is tested as J2e1. My dictionary entry for Dauphin reads "the oldest son of the king of France, used as a title from 1349 to 1830...[from] Middle French, originally a family name." The Capetian dynasty were Kings of France from 987 to 1830 (with interregnums). The current King of Spain is of male line Capetian descent. We need his DNA too.

It is far from certain, but there appears to be a possibility that the Capetians and the Plantagenets may have paternal Roman descents, possibly from two different Roman families. Hopefully, the DNA will tell.

John Plummer



wrote:
Here's a three volume set on every person known to have lived during the
later Roman empire. I've not seen these volumes, but assume that they reflect
the work of Sir Ronald Syme.

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopography_of_the_Later_Roman_Empire_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopography_of_the_Later_Roman_Empire)

Lindsey



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