GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-08 > 1187109038


From: Alan R <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] question re: Scots in Ireland and R1b
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:30:38 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <3b2a446a0708140744keadca52t4d6318edb742c36b@mail.gmail.com>


I think the sampling in Scotland tried to weed out
people who did not have a pretty long Scottish
ancestry and obviously also people with clearly
non-Scottish names. It wouldn't be perfect but I
don't think the ones that slipped through can explain
it.

We are obviously excluding city populations which are
very mixed. The rural extreme SW of Scotland had a
fair bit of input from Ireland in the 18th and 19th
century which may have changed stuff in a limited area
but this is not true of places like the Borders region
(other than the extreme west). Also, places that have
had very little immigration since the 17th century
like Aberdeenshire are very high R1b indeed.

I think it is far more likely that the Ulster planters
were an atypical selection (founder effect) of
Scotland's population. If you read the plantation
records of 1619, 1622 etc and later records, the
actual numbers of Scots-born who immigrated in the
plantation is small compared to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th
generation descendants. The Ulster settlers really
became a majority over the native Irish by their
spectacular growth in the next few generations, not by
weight of Scots-born who arrived. They have also
mixed a lot with the English settlers (there has not
been a barrier between Presbyterian and Anglican
marriage for a very long time).

The Scottish settlers were also culturally atypical
for Scotland,being mainly from an area of Scotland
which had unusually strong religious beliefs compared
to much of the rest of Scotland and this has remained
a difference to this day. Part of my own ancestry is
Ulster-Scots from the Scottish borders.

Alan


--- Sasson Margaliot <>
wrote:

> On 8/14/07, Alan R <> wrote:
> >
> > An Irish survey some years ago found only 52.9% of
> > Irish with Scots names were R1b.
>
> .......
>
> > Founder effect seems fairly likely.
>
>
>
> Alan,
>
> Maybe the Scots in Ireland today better approximate
> the frequencies in
> Scotland 350 years ago
> than the present day frequencies in Scotland do so?
>
> Sasson Margaliot
>



This thread: