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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-08 > 1187225748


From: "Alister John Marsh" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Productive research areas for inclusion in Group Order
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:55:48 +1200
In-Reply-To: <BAY137-F3163F74899B1D65877957EA0DE0@phx.gbl>


Hi Susan,

You asked for advice on whether to test for SNPs S68 or M306 in the group
order.

M306 (S1) should be carried by all R1b1c, so there would be no value in you
testing that.

There are two known people to have tested S68+. One traces to Sweden, and
Beall (Beall R1b1c11 SXVA3 R1bSTR41? Scotland). The only one of these who
has a publicly known haplotype is Beall, and he is around 17 mutations on 37
markers from your father. As S68 has not been widely tested yet, it is not
exactly clear how big or old the clade is, or it's distribution. The
supposition is that it is smallish, and includes a cluster around the
Sweden/ Scotland area. My guess would be that your father would have a very
low chance of being S68+, but until it has been tested more widely we just
don't know.

EthnoAncestry have not revealed any details about the two people who have
tested S68+. I wonder if they would consider releasing the mutation steps
difference between the two S68 people? That would not seem to identify
anybody, or reveal much about the Swedish haplotype, unless the haplotypes
were near identical. If there were 15 mutations difference, it would not
reveal what markers the 15 mutations were on. Even if EA stated that on say
37 markers the two S68+ people were between 1-5, or 6-10, or 11-15 or 16-20
mutation steps different, it would tell us something about the potential
clade size, but not compromise the privacy of the S68 Swedish person.

My suggestion is that if it is a question of DNA testing, or feeding your
children, then don't test S68 in your case, given the mutation steps
difference. But if you can afford it, it would help us learn something
about S68. Even if you are S68-, it tells us something useful, it tells us
where S68 isn't found. Others may have different views, and I would be
interested to hear them.

Anyone interested in testing for S68 in the group order, please check out
http://marshdna.arrrg.org/dnagroupdiscounts.htm . I would suggest that any
with lines tracing to Scotland, whose R1b1c haplotype is even vaguely
similar to Beall SXVA3, or in John McEwen's R1bSTR41 group, might consider
testing S68. If you R1b1c line traces to Sweden, you might also consider
testing. If you are a person who have DNA stored at EA, the cost of testing
a single SNP is not too great.

John.

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Susan Rosine
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 5:35 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [DNA] Productive research areas for inclusion in Group Order

John Marsh and All,

My father is R1b1c* through SNP testing with FTDNA. I have already ordered
the upgrade package (S series) for him through the discount page you set up.

I noticed while looking through the other SNPs offered for R1b that
EthnoAncestry offers M306 and S68 (as well as S25)--these are not tested by
FTDNA. You've explained the value (or lack thereof) of S25 testing for those

who are R1b, but does anyone know whether I should add to my order the SNPs
M306 and/or S68?

Susan


Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:56:29 +1200
From: "Alister John Marsh" <>
Subject: [DNA] FW: DYS463 and S25- Productive research areas for
inclusion in Group Order

List,

WHO SHOULD TEST FOR SNP S25?:

I have just been trying to refresh my memory on which haplogroups might be
useful to test for SNP S25 in the group order.
http://marshdna.arrrg.org/dnagroupdiscounts.htm
Some of the areas of interest are as follows:

1) IRISH TYPE III GROUP (Within R1b1c):

We have had a few of the Irish Type IIIs join the group order, so if as
suspected there is a new SNP near S25 in that group, we stand a chance of
finding it. Any more Irish III's who are interested in joining this group,
are welcome to join. It should not be too expensive for any who have DNA
stored at EA to test for S25.

2) R1B AND R1A:

It is believed that all R1b and R1a with have S25+, so there is no real
reason for R1b & R1a people to test for S25, as they should all be S25+. In
the group order, there are one or two from R1b1c* who have ordered S25 "in
the spirit of research". There is a small chance that another SNP could be
found in the region of S25 when testing for S25.

REMINDER ABOUT THE GROUP ORDER:

The group order was initiated primarily to find out more about S25. For any
curious persons who can afford it, who would like to increase our
understanding of S25, they are welcome to join the group order, see
http://marshdna.arrrg.org/dnagroupdiscounts.htm .

If anyone is unsure if there would be any benefit in testing S25, please
email me with your query, .

John.



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