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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-08 > 1187369068
From: <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Spencer Wells - Stephen Colbert (Tuesday)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:44:28 -0400
References: <003c01c7e0d5$7a213140$6401a8c0@HP><BAY111-F21CB8845D87BCE21256074F1D80@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-F21CB8845D87BCE21256074F1D80@phx.gbl>
I've made my assessment of the skit quite clear, so there's no point in my
repeating it. Just one last comment: there's not a snowball's chance in <bleep>
that Wells would have been given an opportunity to preview, much less edit or
revise, what went out on the air. If you are ever interviewed for television,
do keep that in mind.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: On Behalf Of William Hurst
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 10:59 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Spencer Wells - Stephen Colbert (Tuesday)
>
> Hi again Diana and all,
>
> Hey, I think you are right about the possibility of Stephen
> Colbert getting
> the list of four subgroups directly from his Genographic
> page. I hadn't
> thought of that. But that doesn't lessen the responsibility
> of Wells and the
> Geno Project for the incorrect information on the Comedy
> Central program; it
> increases the responsibility. I have over 200 K Project
> members who either
> came in through the Geno Project or, like me, have
> transferred their results
> over to the Geno Project for $15. It seems as though the Geno Project
> doesn't take their own website seriously, so why should they
> care what they
> say on a comedy show. And it's not just me and not just K; Lawrence
> yesterday and Rebekah today have pointed out errors for other
> mtDNA and Y
> haplogroups.
>
> I can't believe Wells was totally surprised by the chart
> Colbert had. There
> is too much interaction between the four subgroups on the
> Geno website, the
> actual three Ashkenazi subclades, the four real major
> subgroups (by my
> definition), and the four subgroups shown on the program as
> major subgroups.
> And I don't think Colbert came up with the "3 out of 4"
> chances of being
> Jewish idea all by himself.
>
> The show was not live. If Wells saw the program was going
> completely off the
> track - as it did - he could have objected. I bet a lot of
> what we see on TV
> is not the first take. But the topper, of course, was
> "Absolutely correct."
> He could have said "Well, er, uh, hmm...." and reduced the
> damage. As it
> happened, the next night Colbert started the show with
> "Shalom." I even
> thought that was funny. But Wells gets paid probably good
> money to collect
> and distribute scientific information, not provide punch lines for
> comedians.
>
> As for who noticed the chart was wrong: I did. Who cares; I
> care. We now
> have in the K Project 75 members who have paid several
> hundred dollars each
> to take a test which has one of its main purposes telling
> them exactly where
> on that K chart they belong. That's who cares. K is fortunate
> that we have
> one good K tree from Dr. Behar, instead of a couple of
> competing trees, or
> no tree, as some other haplogroups seem to have. Note that
> the one good
> publication out of the Genographic Project so far was written
> by Dr. Behar
> who works for FTDNA. Of, there was the Deep Ancestry book;
> but it contains
> some of the website errors.
>
> Bill Hurst
>
> >Bill,
> >
> >I agree the chart was wrong. No one is disputing that the
> chart was wrong.
> > The
> >question is, who noticed that it was wrong, much less cares
> that it was
> >wrong?
> >
> >I not only doubt that Wells brought the chart to Colbert, I
> doubt that the
> >Colbert team consulted Wells about the chart, at all. They
> probably got
> >the
> >idea for the joke and built the chart from the information
> Colbert got with
> >his
> >test results and/or the Genographic web site. Colbert even
> says to Wells
> >that
> >he was reading their web site. The writers' job and
> Colbert's job was to
> >be
> >funny. I cannot imagine they knew (or would have cared one
> bit if they'd
> >known)
> >that the chart was wrong, and no one with a sense of humor
> cares if the
> >chart
> >was wrong. No one expects a comedy skit to be academically
> accurate, at
> >least
> >no one without entirely unrealistic expectations.
> >
> >This show comes on five nights a week and has multiple spots
> with each
> >show.
> >How much time can they spend planning each segment? It's
> meant to be
> >funny;
> >it's meant to be outrageous. To hold anything said on the
> show to an
> >academic
> >level of accuracy or literal veracity is to fail to
> understand either
> >comedy or
> >parody. If you're looking for factual news reporting, I wouldn't be
> >placing
> >either The Colbert Report of The Daily Show on my list of
> sources. That
> >doesn't
> >mean some of the things said on them aren't true, it just
> means you have to
> >already know they're true, or you can't tell the facts from
> the jokes.
> >
> >As for the statement you quote, "Haplogroup K contains the following
> >subgroups:
> >K, K1a, K1a4a1, K1a9," no one on the clip said that. If you have
> >complaints
> >about the Genographic Project or it's web site, that's
> another issue, and I
> >recommend starting a new thread.
> >
> >Diana
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: On Behalf Of
> William Hurst
> > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 8:24 AM
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: [DNA] Spencer Wells - Stephen Colbert (Tuesday)
> > >
> > > Hi Diana and all,
> > >
> > > Here is the statement: "Haplogroup K contains the
> following subgroups:
> >K,
> > > K1a, K1a4a1, K1a9." That statement is at best incomplete,
> at worst
> >incorrect.
> > > As Linda pointed out, K is obviously not a subgroup of K.
> K1a is a major
> > > subgroup. K1a4a1 and K1a9 are not major subgroups of K,
> but further
> > > subdivisions of K1a. No mention of three other major
> subgroups K1b, K1c
> > > and K2. Now this can't be blamed on Comedy Central; it's on the
> > > Genographic personal page of those of us in K. That's
> what I get for my
> > > $15. I pointed out this situation to FTDNA months ago.
> They said it
> >would be
> > > updated. It wasn't. Perhaps I should have gone directly
> to Genographic,
> > > but that list came from information supplied by FTDNA.
> But it represents
> > > only customers who tranferred their results, with
> subclade assignments,
> >to
> > > the Genographic Project. There are other statements on
> the website I
> >don't
> > > like, but since those didn't get to Comedy Central I
> won't discuss them
> >here.
> > >
> > > Now here is what I think happened. Wells took that list to Comedy
> >Central
> > > and they made up the graphic. Even Wells or CC realized
> that K wasn't a
> > > subgroup of K, so that got switched somehow to K2a. Perhaps the
> >Ashkenazi
> > > K2a2a got edited down to K2a. My guess is that K1a4a1 got
> edited down to
> >the
> > > phony K4a. K1a9 was the same in both places and is the only true
> >Ashkenazi
> > > subclade on the list. Now Comedy Central could not have been the
> >originator
> > > of the theory that 3 of those 4 were Jewish subgroups and
> that meant
> >that
> > > there was a 3 of 4 chance that Stephen Colbert was
> Jewish. That had to
> >have
> > > been presented to them by Wells. When Wells agreed to
> this by saying
> > > "Absolutely correct," he has to take responsibility for making an
> >absolutely
> > > incorrect statement.
> > >
> > > All these comedy shows have serious guests. I don't watch
> the Colbert
> > > Report, but I do watch the Daily Show with Jon Stewart -
> from which the
> > > Colbert Report was spun off. The guests there come on,
> present FACTS,
> >Jon
> > > makes fun of them. everybody goes home. If they wanted someone to
> >provide
> > > incorrect information, they could just use an intern with a wig.
> > >
> > > OK, I've commented enough here. I've registered my
> complaint to the
> > > Genographic Project. Haven't heard back from them. Now I
> have better
> >things
> > > to do. Probably have to explain to another Irish Catholic
> K that she is
> >not
> > > really Jewish no matter what the expert on national TV
> said. I've
> >actually
> > > had to explain that to more than one person transferring
> their results
> >from
> > > the Genographic Project. Their website is bad enough; the
> Comedy Central
> > > appearance will no doubt make it worse. Ha ha. Bah humbug.
> > >
> > > Bill Hurst
> > >
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------
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