Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-08 > 1187473968

From: Gary Felix <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Genetic Imprint of the Phoenicians
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:52:48 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <>

ellen Levy <> wrote: >Gary:

>So Wells is claiming a specific haplotype within E3b
>constitutes "Aboriginal North African"? How does this
>tie into his theory concerning Phoenician expansion?
>Does he specify which subclade of E3b?

He says Phoenicians mainly spread thier culture and their culture would have been out of the Levant (not North African E3b). I take this to mean the Berber haplotype (M81). Since J predominates in the Levant I will focusing on it.

>Did you read Bonnie's explanations concering the CMH
>among J1 and J2 haplogroups that she posted about 2-3
>months ago? I found them to be very helpful.

Didn't happen to see it.

>In terms of two separate haplogroups (actually in this
>case, sub-groups of haplogroup J) containing
>convergent haplotypes, I'm probably not the best
>person to speak to this, but suspect that it does not
>necessarily indicate the two groups evolved from the
>same area (unless you mean a rather large region like
>the Middle East) and suffered little bottlenecks, etc.

The middle east is by far desert and desert for most of its history. The area of the Levant is a strip close to the Med. sea. The people of this area were likely in close proximity for quite some time until their movement west due to growth, to similar climes. Populations with sustained growth and proximity should exhibit similar haplotypes. For example using India as the center of migration out of Africa we see that marker 392 is modal 12 and over for K's descendants (L,N,O,P,Q,R xR1a). These are all old linages and left India early on to follow the Mamouth with the possible exception of L. Haplogroup F's sons (G,H,I, J) are younger and exihibit 11 or possibly 10 as modal for 392. The exceptions are R1a who stayed close to India around its origin as I believe it exhibits the most diversity there (origin). L is also an exception as it exhibits a model like the rest of K's descendants but appears around India. I believe this is because it was able to get back to India
during the LGM. India and Southeast Asia were were by far the largest geographic refugiums during this time. Southeast Asia even grew in size during this time due to lowering sea levels.

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