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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-09 > 1189468961


From: "Tim Janzen" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] EA R1b-8 Frisian Modal Haplotype (FMH)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:02:41 -0700
In-Reply-To: <006b01c7f3ff$49810230$fdc23e47@Richard>


Dear Rich,
A lot of this appears to boil down to semantics. It appears to me
that most people would refer to R1b1c as a subclade but perhaps I am wrong
about that and perhaps we should generally refer to it as a haplogroup. At
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroups subdivisions
of haplogroup G as deep as G2c1a are referred to as haplogroups. Spencer
Wells in his book Deep Ancestry refers to R1a1 as a haplogroup. I don't
know that it makes much difference whether we refer to R1b1c as a haplogroup
or as a subclade. The reason I said that the Atlantic Modal Haplotype is
broadly associated with R1b1c is because the Atlantic Modal Haplotype is
found in a number of the R1b1c subclades including R1b1c6, R1b1c7, R1b1c9,
and R1b1c10 per Ron Scott's list of R1b haplotypes on his web site. The AMH
is also found with reasonable frequency in the R1b1c* paragroup. So yes, I
did mean to refer to R1b1c in the broad sense in my original message.
Sincerely,
Tim

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of R. Stevens
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 4:07 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [DNA] EA R1b-8 Frisian Modal Haplotype (FMH)

I thought you meant R1b1c*, since in your post you seemed to distinguish
"R1b1c" from its own subclades, like R1b1c9. R1b1c, as I understand it, is a

y-haplogroup. All of its subclades are included within the big R1b1c tent.
When you refer to R1b1c without the asterisk, you are including all of its
subdivisions, whether you mean to or not.

If you separate out all the known subclades of R1b1c, then what is left is
really R1b1c*, and that is why I thought that is what you meant.

Rich

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