Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-09 > 1191056349

From: "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Younger Dryas and R1b1c
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:59:09 +0100
In-Reply-To: <>

Vince, I recently picked up Oppenheimer's 'The Origins of the British'.
Aside from the discussion of DNA, he does discuss the LGM and the Younger
Dryas at some length in relation to his interpretation of the movement of
his various groups out of the refrugiums. With his extensive footnotes and
the sources he quotes, you might find something there that would be helpful
as well.


-----Original Message-----
[mailto:]On Behalf Of Vincent
Sent: 29 September 2007 03:00
Subject: [DNA] Younger Dryas and R1b1c

I'm hoping that someone on the list can give a pragmatic opinion on
the severity of the Younger Dryas in Europe. Basically the question
is, was the Younger Dryas severe enough that it would have pushed
human populations in Europe back into the peninsulas (Iberia, Italy,
Balkans, etc) for at least a short while?

I'm asking because I'm trying to make sense of the data on R1b1c in
Europe. I tend to agree with the evidence that suggests that R1b1c
radiated into central and western Europe from Iberia at the end of
the Pleistocene. However, there also appears to be a variant of
R1b1c that expanded from Anatolia and the STR variance of R1b1c from
Anatolia is about 50% greater than that from Iberia. But the two
variants are not so distinct from each other that they could have
been isolated for very long.

One way to make sense of this data is to speculate the following:

R1b1c survived the LGM in Anatolia, expanded into Europe briefly
from there, only to be forced back south into mulitple refugia
during the Younger Dryas. For whatever reason, the folks from the
Iberian refugium had good luck repopulating western and Central Europe.

None of that is particularly novel, I know, but it would be
consistent with the data presented by Cinnioglu and also with what I
observe in the Italy DNA Project. Unfortunately, I'm having
difficulty tracking down the most commonly cited sources on the
European glaciation and climatic cycles.


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