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From: John Laws <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b1c10 is in Ireland Part1!
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:46:16 -0800


Glen, Janet, and all,


I too am R1b1c10 (S28+), but easily traced back to East Anglia in
England. My background is not in the deductive logic / hard science of
DNA and therefore I rarely comment on this list, but rather I have read
follow comment lines for my own edification. I do have a background of
inferential thinking having been a Certified Criminal Analyst and worked
government intelligence (OK, an oxymoron) and often will look to the
'inference to the best explanation' which I then look for data to
support or contradict.

Correct me if I am wrong, Dr. Faux, but you have espoused a theory that
our R1b1c10 line encompassed the Cimbrian tribe of the Jutland
peninsula, of which a large portion migrated south in the 1st century
A.D. and were nearly wiped out by the Roman armies near the Alps. No
doubt survivors fled to hide in the mountains. The Roman Ptolemy, in
the 2nd Century AD, called them the 'Kimbroi', wrote of their
destruction upon invading Italy and in drawing a Roman world map, showed
them in the most northerly part of the Jutland Peninsula. Ptolemy
described the 'Kimroi' as tall and of fair complexion. The Danes of the
North Jutland Peninsula today celebrate the Cimbri's as their ancestors.

Those Cimbri who remained on the Jutland peninsula, most likely
assimilated with other local tribes and participated in middle age
Viking activity. Of course, they would have been a minority DNA line
within the Vikings. The concentrations of R1b1c10 (S28+) in England
trace back to the areas encompassed by the Viking Kingdom of Danelaw,
which stood for over 80 years. The first recorded Viking raid on Ireland
was on Rathlin Island in 795 AD. Three major Viking kingdoms in Ireland
were also established during the ninth century, at Dublin, at Limerick,
and at Waterford with settlements. A battle on Good Friday, in the year
1014 marked the end of Viking control in Ireland (much longer than
England). To me, Dr. Faux's theory makes sense compared to the data
(though not definitively proven) . I can find no better explanation to
match concentrated distributions in SE Norway, North Denmark, the Alps
region, and England. Of course, one would also /expect/ R1b1c10 (S28+)
to be found in Ireland from the Viking presence there.

Glen, I used to blindly accept that my male linage was 'English', as
that was where I learned my family was from via my genealogy work. That
was before DNA. I have since abandoned the concept of 'nation state' in
defining who my ancestors were as opposed to the 'tribe' we are linked
to. Whether R1b1c10 (S28+) are to be called 'Cimbri' or not, I
consider you my tribal cousin who's family may have lived in Ireland at
some point.


John Laws
R1b1c10 (S28+)



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