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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-11 > 1195079804


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Impressive Alpine Clade - I1a-EE
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:36:44 -0700
References: <482287.532.qm@web50704.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


I'm wondering about the time scales? I'm thinking I1a-EE may represent
folks from this alpine, central European region since as early as just after
the LGM. We don't talk about Celts until many thosands of years later.
This is not to say that later tribes would not include indigenous folks of
wherever they settled. Was the Iceman a Celt? Was the Iceman I1a-EE ? I
am stumped at the moment in where I might go to look for more examples of
I1a-EE. If the geography holds up then "EE" could get replaced with
"Danubian" or "alpine"

In my list of all the markers used by FTDNA and SMGF, I have them ranked
from slowest to fastest. DYS426, the key identifier for I1a-EE, is the
second slowest marker in common usage. It's mutation rate is so slow, I'm
not sure it has really been measured.

Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Faux" <>
To: "DNA Rootsweb" <>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 2:57 PM
Subject: [DNA] Impressive Alpine Clade - I1a-EE


> Ken wrote: Collecting both Ysearch and SMGF examples, the clade I1a-EE
> has developed a very impressive geographic signal. I have 21 examples with
> the following geographical places of origin
>
> Germany 8
> Yugoslavia 2
> Switzerland 2
> Hungary 1
> Italy 1
> Denmark 1
> Spain 1
> Brazil 1
> unknown 5
> <snipped>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Ken:
>
> I have been searching for "companion haplogroups" to include, along with
> R1b1c10, as La Tene Celtic footprints.
>
> This clade you have identified fits perfectly with the La Tene Celts
> having originated in Southern Germany, Eastern France, Switzerland and
> Italy, then in the 5th Century BC came in huge well documented (in
> Classical sources and archaeology) migrations to Gaul and Spain
> (relatively few in number), as well as larger numbers east to Hungary and
> Illyria (former Yugoslavia). The Danish would be, if I am correct, the
> Celtic Cimbri from the Alpine region who moved to Jutland at various times
> between the 5th and 2nd Centuries BC (again Classical authors and
> archaeology providing ample support), the two major being 279 BC (after
> the sack of Delphi) and 101 BC (after the defeat at Vercellae).
>
> I believe that there is a clade of I1b2a - Continental, found in
> Switzerland and Denmark as well as England (the latter somebody with my
> surname) which also fits this "Celtic origin" hypothesis.
>
> I wonder if other haplogroups can be tied to the La Tene Central European
> Celts.
>
> David Faux.
>
>
>
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