Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-11 > 1196475202

From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] PLOS Genetics: admixture study of European Americans
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:13:22 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <>

Of course this was long before Ashkenazi Jews came to
Europe. There were no Jews 10,000 years ago - or
Europeans, for that matter. There was no Arabs, no
Turks, no Swedes.

And just so you understand, the Ashkenazi Jews never
came to Europe. "Ashkenazim" arose as a group in
Europe, not the Middle East, so your statement that
Ashkenazi Jews came to Europe is nonsense. They are
distinctly a European ethnicity, not a Middle Eastern

Paul, I have two lines that are R1a, both Ashkenazi
Jewish. Ashkenazim have about 12% R1a. They have an
equal frequency of R1b. They have a high frequency of
Q (7%)(hmmm, I wonder if you consider this a little
European or a lot or not at all). They have about 5%
haplogroup I. So this totals about 30% of the Y
chromosome results.

You never answered Gene's ("Grandcross") question, at
least as far as I could see in the multiple posts on
this subject. Are Ashkenazi Jews less European
because they are, in your view, descended from Middle
Easterners, or is it based on haplogroups? Because if
it is based on haplogroups, please explain according
to your theory how a Jewish R1a like my father is less
"European" in ancestry than a German J2 (and yes,
Paul, there are actually about 5-6% of non-Jewish
Germans in haplogroup J, so please don't claim that
there are no notable J2's of German descent).

Ellen Coffman

--- Havelock Vetinari <> wrote:

> It amazes me that some people here seem
> intellectually incapable of
> accepting the fact that Europe has an indigenous
> population just like
> the Americas and Australia. For more information on
> this area check
> out the following research:
> Haplogroup R1b is represented by Eu18, R1a is
> represented by Eu10 and
> Haplogroup I is represented by Eu7 and Eu8. Quote:
> "We interpret the differentiation and the
> distribution of haplotypes
> Eu18 and Eu19 as signatures of expansions from
> isolated population
> nuclei in the Iberian peninsula and the present
> Ukraine, following the
> Last Glacial Maximum (LGM). In fact, during this
> glacial period
> (20,000 to 13,000 years ago), human groups were
> forced to vacate
> Central Europe, with the exception of a refuge in
> the northern
> Balkans."
> This was long before the Ashkenazi Jews ever came to
> Europe.
> Regards,

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