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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-12 > 1197398365


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Germans who carry J and G (was PLOS Genetics)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:39:25 -0700
References: <246baaff0712101125i69093a7ak871617ce6246adb8@mail.gmail.com><624603.15660.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com><246baaff0712111027p65e1ee5bs5ba0765937c72ea4@mail.gmail.com>


The band(s) that were supposed to leave Africa 60,000 years ago or so to go
on to account for the rest of the world's modern humans are also
approximated to be of this same small size. So first mankind had to
diversify through spreading into the void, isolation, genetic drift, and
natural selection. Then we argue about to what degree have we mixed these
resulting localized and diversified populations since.
My own reading of the tea leaves is that the remixing so far has been only a
small fraction of the genetic diversification that took place during the
filling of the world.

Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: "Havelock Vetinari" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Germans who carry J and G (was PLOS Genetics)


The paper says that most northern Europeans are descended from 50
people who lived over 25,000 years ago. I don't know how any group can
be called mixed with so few founding ancestors who lived so long ago.

Regards,

Paul D.

On 12/10/07, ellen Levy <> wrote:
> This article is about a SNP related to disease that
> indicates a significant bottleneck impacted either the
> founding of populations in Europe (50,000 years ago)
> or post-LGM. It compares "Northern Europeans"
> (unspecified as to populations) with Nigerians. It has
> nothing to do with intermixing of various European
> populations, including southeast Europeans. Thus,
> this article does not support, or even address, the
> "non-admixture of Northern Europeans" proposition you
> are asserting.
>
> Ellen Coffman
>
> --- Havelock Vetinari <> wrote:
>
> > According to this research, Northern Europeans are
> > less mixed than other groups:
> >
> >
> http://www.wi.mit.edu/news/archives/2001/el_0509.html
> >
> > Quotes:
> >
> > "Finally, the occurrence of SNPs in large blocks was
> > seen in northern
> > European populations but not seen in the Nigerian
> > populations,
> > suggesting that something happened in the population
> > history of the
> > northern Europeans—a recent bottleneck that shaped
> > the genetic history
> > of this population."
> >
> > "The 8-times larger blocks of linkage disequilibrium
> > in northern
> > Europeans thus suggest a relatively recent
> > contraction. Indeed, the
> > authors infer that the ancestors of northern
> > Europeans last
> > experienced a major bottleneck about 27,000-53,000
> > years ago."
> >
> > "Weaving the strands of evidence together, the
> > authors show that some
> > time during the migration and expansion out of
> > Africa—and after the
> > separation from Sub-Saharan African populations—no
> > more than 50
> > individuals probably gave rise to most of the modern
> > northern European
> > gene pool."
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Paul D.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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