GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-12 > 1197741344
From: Geri Lucas <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Germans who carry J and G (was PLOS Genetics)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:55:44 -0800 (PST)
In a message dated 12/14/2007 12:39:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
R came from Asia while Haplogoup I came from the Middle East over
20,000 years ago, at least according to Semino. Because they came to
Europe so long ago they don't have any close relatives outside of
So Haplogroup I is Middle Eastern -- to quote your words above?
I'm half Swedish and half British Isles/Colonial American. I have 2 known
haplogroup I ancestors from the British Isles (both of them known to be among
the earliest immigrants to this nation, the rest of my identified male
lineages are R1b. My female lineages however are all over the map -- H (several
varieties) K (my direct line), U2e, V. Here's the reality, Paul.
"Admixture" refers to autosomal DNA NOT YDNA or mtDNA. If you think for one
minute that all those men whom you think were "indigeneous" didn't pick up
some pretty "middle Eastern" exotic wives now and again over the years, please
answer me this -- how come I'm B type blood (rare in N Europe), have SLE
(more common in women of color), have dark brown hair (not blonde or red), and
am lactose tolerant too? I can track my ancestry back at least 200 years on
all my lineages, and there's not a non-Swede or non-British Isles origin
person among them. Not a single woman of color, no Native Americans, nothing but
Europeans, and Northern/Northwestern Europeans among them.
Explain why the biogeographic tests for folks like me turn up links to
African and Middle Eastern and Asian populations, without admixture.
Please explain why the runes in Southern Sweden are FUTHARK (linked to
Phoenician)? And 9000 years old according to what I read. Check out the oldest
archaeological sites in the British Isles and Ireland. They don't date back to
20,000 years ago but closer to 8-9,0000 (not counting those prior to the Ice
Age). So where were those folk "hanging" 11-12,000 years ago? Do you think
those men weren't "having it on" with all kinds of women? Do you think men
have changed THAT much over the last 20,000 years?
Read about the Link between North African and Scandinavian mtDNA
(http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdf/10.1086/430073) And the Saami - Volga-Ural Russian link
European Journal of Human Genetics (2007) 15, 115â120.
doi:10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201712; published online 20 September 2006. A recent genetic link between
Sami and the Volga-Ural region of Russia. Max Ingman and Ulf Gyllensten
Read about the X-chromosome
European Journal of Human Genetics (2005) 13, 452â462.
doi:10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201340 Published online 22 December 2004. X-chromosome as a marker for
population history: linkage disequilibrium and haplotype study in Eurasian
populations. Maris Laan, Victor Wiebe, Elza Khusnutdinova, Maido Remm and Svante
Remember too that TODAY's Population isn't necessarily yesterday's! We have
some evidence that today's UK population of mtDNA was considerably different
1000 years ago. Other ancient DNA studies from Spain and Denmark suggest the
same thing (Hungarian do too I believe).
Finally consider the case of the E3b family in Yorkshire -- and then tell me
humans haven't been "admixing" from the dawn of time.
I'm not going to address you any more on this topic. Several listers have
pointed out the flaws in your interpretations of what you have read. I said it
before and I'll say it once more -- one has to look at the data and see what
IS, not what one WANTS TO SEE. Your posts have a continual thread of "I'm
seeing what I want to see." For that, I have no time. There are none so
blind as those who will not see.
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As Always, Geri
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|Re: [DNA] Germans who carry J and G (was PLOS Genetics) by Geri Lucas <>|