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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-12 > 1197757198


From: Beth Long <>
Subject: [DNA] New thread: Haplogroup I
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:19:58 -0800 (PST)


Sorry Ken, my mistake. When I said Northern France, I meant to say as a possible origin for I1c/I1b2a (not I1a).

As far as I1b(1), I have read that it radiated out from its apparant origin in the Balkans, mostly to the North and East, with a sizeable number coming to rest in what is now the Ukraine. I have no ideas what the time frame of this expansion supposedly occurred.

It interests me because 21% of my project members are I1b1, and it seems more logical that these eastward-moving I1b1 would have mingled over time with the Magyars (who I assume were primarily R1a) in "Etelkoz", the region on the north shore of the Black Sea). This is the place the whole group left from in 795A.D:

The alternative is that the I1b1 represents a population of Balkan people present in the Carpathian Basin when the Magyars arrived. But there isn't historical record to suggest such large-scale mixing of the two groups so late in the game (i.e. 8th and 9th century).

We also have J, G, and E3b, and I tend to think at least the J and G are the Iranian tribes which have been written about extensively in historical sources. Or perhaps the G might be Alains, which are also mentioned in the historical literature.

Time will tell, I guess. But meanwhile, can you suggest a quantitative way of determining how old this I1b1 population is in our people (i.e. whether the mixing is more likely to have taken place in the Ukraine thousands of years ago, or more likely in the Carpathian Basin itself about 1200 years ago?)

Beth Long




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