Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-01 > 1200958075

From: Bernie Cullen <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] my mtDNA matches with Finns, Haplogroup U2/ 217C mutation
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:27:55 -0800

Hi Ron and all,

Thanks for your comments and I hope to get a FGS eventually. Who knows, maybe one of the Finns will too--I have corresponded with three of my matches now, and I have to say they certainly are knowledgeable and interested in the subject. Here's what they told me:

Almost all of my HVR1 matches from Finland are members of the Finnish DNA project and some are also in the Haplogroup U2 project at FTDNA

I count about 24 different HVR1 "haplotypes" for people designated as U2 on the U2 project site. (Not sure what the correct term is--I mean distinct combinations of HVR1 mutations). The most frequent haplotype is 16051G, 16129C, 16183C, 16189C, 16362C, 16519C. About 20 of the 69 U2 people have this haplotype, and so do my Finnish matches and I.

When you look at the Finnish DNA project, you notice that several subgroups of U are found, and as Ron suggested, U2 doesn't seem to be especially common overall. But all the Finns in the project have only one "haplotype", the one I described above. Also, of these 5 Finns, 2 have HVR2 results, and they match each other exactly (and me, and one other American). The HVR2 mutations are: 73G, 152C, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 340T, 508G, 524.1C, 524.2A

Maybe all this means is that the is relatively low mtDNA diversity in Finland. But here's what one of my Finnish HVR2 matches wrote me:

"I have joined the Family Tree DNA's Finland project and also U2 project in
order to get more information about the rare U2 mtDNA. If you look at
FTDNA's "Dual geographical projects" under F you can find the Finland
project. Under mtDNA results you can find five U2 people with identical
HVR-1 pattern. Only two people, ***** and I have also checked the HVR-2
mutations. Almost all European origin U2 people have mutation 217C in HVR-2,
but we do not have it. I have seen somewhere Finnish U2 sequences with
mutation 217C, so there must be different U2 haplotypes also in Finland."

It's true, almost all of the U2 people with HVR2 results have the 217C mutation. So my question is, can it be determined what the ancestral state of 217 is for the U2 group. Are we people without 217C an "old" group within U2, or is losing the 217C mutation something new? Or is that the wrong kind of question to be asking?

mitosearch 4AQ88

Ron wrote:

Hi Bernie,

U2 is not really associated with the Finnish people, although there're a few that I've seen from that region. I would suggest a full-sequence (FGS) test to determine which subclade that you might belong, before exploring any contacts based upon HVR1-2 results. We already know that the so-called hi-res matches are less important than CR matches, of which only the full-sequence test can provide.

Ron Scott

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