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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-02 > 1202245824


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] The Story of I1b1 (P37.2+)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:10:24 -0700
References: <4.3.1.2.20080205154443.02082ef0@mail.spacey.net>


John, I'll have to rewrite that sentence to better say what is meant. I
meant to say that for 550 generations each male only had a single son whose
descendant population has not gone extinct. It need not be the first-born
son; just that only one son of how many were born in each generation has a
non-extinct line of descendants seen today.

If some male in that line had two sons with non-extinct descendant
populations today, we'd call that father a "technical founder". If both
those sons' descendant populations turned out to be robust today, that's
another branch point in the tree.

Ken

----- Original Message -----
From: "John E. Mellick" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] The Story of I1b1 (P37.2+)


> On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 Ken wrote:
>>What happened over the 550 generation branch line that goes from the MRCA
>>for all of I1b1 to the I1b1-Western founder (MRCA)? Certainly 550
>>generations of father to son transitions did not go by with just a single
>>son being born each generation. But over that long span of generations,
>>all second and third son descendant lines went extinct. This can not be
>>known to be exactly true, but is rather what is seen to fractional
>>accuracy of a part in several thousand --- the number of y haplogroup I
>>haplotypes which have been examined by population studies up until
>>now. All P37.2+ haplotypes found so far fall into one of the four
>>clusters here discussed. That is not to say that some outlier haplotypes
>>won't be found in the future in larger databases showing additional small
>>clades of P37.2+, but any such additional clades will be demographically
>>marginal.
>
> Ken,
> A most interesting analysis of I1b1(P37.2+). But I don't understand what
> you said about second and third son's lines going extinct. Do you mean
> that 500 generations from now your first son's descendants will carry your
> mutations, but all of your second and later son's descendants won't carry
> your mutations?
> John
>
>
>
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