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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-05 > 1211316805


From: Thomas Gull <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] S21/S28 Split+m223 stuff
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 16:53:25 -0400
References: <740603.46462.qm@web86612.mail.ird.yahoo.com><029401c8bab2$c0e33580$6400a8c0@Ken1>
In-Reply-To: <029401c8bab2$c0e33580$6400a8c0@Ken1>


There's also the repeated references to spread of elites being the only way that such quick replacement can occur, stated as if that's a known fact and the only likely possibility. So if it's not somehow obvious in the "archaeological record", the event itself de facto can't have occurred. Where's the authority for that concept being the only way?

Not that I believe there is a monolithic "archaeological record" accepted by one and all, either . 1,000 facts, a couple hundred differing major interpretations for quite a while. Have all archaeologists studying European prehistory come to a joint conclusion (like maybe the physicists did before quantum physics came to the fore)?

/ Tom



> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 13:50:28 -0600
> Subject: Re: [DNA] S21/S28 Split+m223 stuff
>
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan R"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 12:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] S21/S28 Split+m223 stuff
>
>
>>I think major population displacements by a dominant lineage arriving from
>>somewhere else is unlikely not to leave ANY archaeological, linguistic or
>>historical trace/influence at all. I also would say that it has to be
>>remembered that if R1b didn't arrive in some areas until the later Bronze
>>Age..........
>
> [[[[[ I really want to let the data speak for itself until someone bothers
> to question the technical details of the analysis/calculations and finds
> something incorrect. But two points relevant to the S21/S28 MRCA issue seem
> important.
>
> 1. Extinction rates of ydna lines: it is impossible to think about what
> seems plausible or not without taking into account the almost complete
> extinction liklihood of ydna lines in ancient times. Certainly when the
> S21/S28 single male MRCA was living there were many others with very similar
> haplotypes --- maybe a tribe's worth. They just went extinct. Again; folks
> should work on ydna recovery from ancient bones. Look at the S23+/M223- I
> haplotype shock from the Lichtenstein caves.
>
> 2. No one has mentioned a percent, let alone a percent based on data, of
> what fraction of western Europe M269 is supposed to be either S21+ or S28+
> Does not the other M269+ in that part of the world count?
>
> Ken ]]]]]]]]]]
>
>
>
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