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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-05 > 1211398189


From: "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] S21/S28 Split+m223 stuff
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 20:29:49 +0100
In-Reply-To: <010d01c8bb5c$c8c5a300$6400a8c0@Ken1>


Has there ever
> been a vote taken? [[[[ Hope this is a joke line; otherwise it is close to

> ____ (censored my own message). I would walk out of a physics conference
> which in seriousness took a poll on a scientific question. KN ]]]]]]

Ken, I may have had a smile on my face when I typed it, but it is not
without some seriousness that I ask. Without some modicum of consensus
amidst the genetic genealogical community of what constitutes an appropriate
mutation rate and an adequate years-per-generation figure, when one
person/author or group discusses their calculations compared to another,
particularly when they don't indicate what rates they were using, it can be
like comparing apples and oranges and decidedly misleading for we lesser
mortals who have limited statistical background and a relative inability to
make knowledgeable judgments of such complicated matters.

There is no doubt in my mind that Family Tree needs to address this issue as
well. I know John has said they are considerably shorter in their
estimations in their TiP calculator than yourselves. When we Group
Administrators look at results comparisons, what we see is decidedly
different than what we'd find if we used your excel spreadsheet calculator.

It's useful to know that ' If those slower rates [Z's] were used, however,
it would make the time of split up of y haplogroup I in Europe to be 50
thousand years or more ago.' That would certainly support John's rates.
That also makes me wonder how Zhivotovsky needed such longer rates (I
believe he added some 'fudge factors', didn't he?) to arrive at the TMRCA's
of the groups he was studying, since he supposedly knew their history.

Now I hope you don't need to censor any reply you may make to my humble
pleas. I suspect I am merely the person foolish enough to pop her head
above the parapet of the wall we are all trying to break down.

Thanks for your counsel.

Elizabeth


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