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From: Alan R <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] S21/S28 Split+m223 stuff
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 16:47:53 +0000 (GMT)


That's true. Within clade MRCA may be utterly misleading although they do provide a minimum age or 'terminus anti quem' for the lineage which is something. However inter-clade MRCAs are interesting and could tell us a lot. I would love to see a systematic table or list of all the inter-clade MRCAs going from R1 downstream. A lot of this has been posted piecemeal and I am getting a bit confused now. I think you posted this already but has anyone used Ken's system to work out a MRCA date for western and eastern R1b?

Alan

----- Original Message ----
From: Vincent Vizachero <>
To: Alan R <>;
Sent: Thursday, 22 May, 2008 5:28:00 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] S21/S28 Split+m223 stuff

The MRCA of R-S29 may or may not have lived more recently than the MRCA of R-S28. Interpretations of the STR data vary, and it could go either way.


In either case, the relative youth of the MRCA's won't necessarily inform our opinion about the time at which their lineages diverged from each other or from the remainder of R-M269. The difference between the time of the divergence and the time of the MRCA could be tremendous.


Further, it is not necessarily true that archaeology can attest to anything about the time of the divergence or the time of the MRCA. If we are lucky there may be archaelogical evidence of some cultural even that corresponds to a population expansion affiliated with one or more of these subclades, but that may or may not prove to be the case.


Vince






On May 22, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Alan R wrote:


I am ignoring the actual suggested dating and concentrating on the implications of the new suggested relative seniority of R1b clades. For almost all archaeological attested scenarios I can think of, the idea that a predominantly west-central R1b clade is older than a predominantly northern one makes far more sense. So I am relieved to hear that S28 may be older than S21.

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