GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-05 > 1211493654
From: "David Faux" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] S21/S28 Split+m223 stuff
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:00:54 -0700
I must point out that total R1b1c sample size was N=6 and of these who knows
how many were relatives or from the same remote area - we know nothing of
the sample except "Austria". It is dangerous to make large generalizations
on very low sample sizes - unless it is of course a hypothesis which can be
tested. It seems however that few Austrians have tested with FTDNA so we
really need to wait to learn whether it is a true "hotspot" such as
Switzerland is with S28. Vince and I disagree on this point.
David K. Faux.
On 5/22/08, Thomas Gull <> wrote:
> A Myres et al reported hot spot in Austria whose percentage is actually
> higher than that reported in Friesland. And the mapping data we have so far
> on individuals tested U106+ actually shows more confirmed individuals in
> southwest Germany and northern Switzerland than anywhere else except the UK.
> This runs counter to what everyone expected to see even in the first mapped
> datapoints, which was a concentration in northern Germany and northern
> Netherlands. So the predictive value of the "northern hypothesis" has been
> problematic to date.
> Any or all of these current patterns might change later as they might be
> due to sampling bias. But the total samples for the high Norway / Friesland
> percentage reports are actually quite small, too. Phrased another way, the
> "northern" conclusion is largely reached by selectively deciding which data
> to accept and which data to ignore as opposed to accepting it all. If we
> were to go by raw data alone without assuming specific sampling biases, we'd
> probably be looking at the UK as the S21 origin point! Everyone seems to
> hate that possibility <g>.
> / Tom> Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 13:55:11 -0700> From:
> > To: > Subject: Re:
> [DNA] S21/S28 Split+m223 stuff> > > From: Thomas Gull <>> >
> > > As a side note, I think it's far from proven that S21> > originated as a
> northern clade. Some evidence suggests it,> > other evidence contradicts
> that. > > I suppose the evidence that supports the origin of S21+ in
> northern Europe is that northern Europe is where S21+ is most common. What
> is the evidence that contradicts it?> > Jim Turner> > > > >
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