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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-05 > 1211518406


From: John Laws <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] S21/S28 Split+m223 stuff
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:53:26 -0700
References: <mailman.523.1211440874.8373.genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.523.1211440874.8373.genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com>


David, Bob and all,

I have been reading this line with interest. I have not commented as I claim no expertise in this area but have been studying the Druid class. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid)
They fit in with the S28 model as they are believed to have started in the proto-celtic La Tene Culture. The Druids were the 'learned' class that provided the priests, judges, and doctors among other jobs. They were a separate class from warrior and ruler classes. In fact, they were known to carry limited weaponry so as not be be a threat. They were a class that was expected to travel. Druid candidates, when selected, were thought to be sent off to multi year training 'centers' for their specialty. One of the largest was off the coast of Wales that attracted Druids from all over Europe. They probably would have been the logical mode for the transfer of technology. Both the Romans and Greeks wrote about them calling them (among other things) traveling Philosophers.

I would not be so bold to suggest that they were involved with the large scale transfer of DNA (although they were involved in fertility rites), but did provide cultural ties among the many peoples Celtic. I would postulate that they did not just 'start' as a class during the La Tene Culture, but rather evolved over time, perhaps starting to evolve into a class as early as the Hallstatt culture.

John Laws
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallstatt_culture>;--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 19:58:07 -0700
From: "David Faux" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] S21/S28 Split+m223 stuff
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I am not entirely sure that I am the first one to suggest this, but I
maintain that for example the famous Hochdorf burial of an elite Hallstatt
Celtic male in Baden-Wurttemburg Germany gives us an important clue as to
what the visual cue(s) of rank may have been. Curiously he was not buried
with any weapons, just hunting arrows and gear. He was buried on a 9 foot
bronze couch held up by elaborate casters. On the wall were 9 drinking
horns reminiscent of the Greek symposium (drinking) tradition. But most
revealing, at least to me, is that in addition to the torc around the neck
as a symbol of rank, he also wore a conical birchbark hat (a la Merlin the
wizard). Full sized stone statues have been found nearby associated with
other graves which also show the person presumed to have been buried in the
tumulus below wearing a similar conical hat. Clearly this has no protective
value in that as far as a sword blow is concerned the man would be better
advised to wear leather. I believe that instead of a member of the warrior
elite, we are seeing the burials of the priestly class where a symbol of his
rank is the conical hat which would be recognized throughout the Celtic
world and perhaps beyond.

David K. Faux.


On 5/21/08, Bob Hay <> wrote:

> >
> > Another and very powerful method was through co-initiates: men inducted
> > into
> > varying levels of initiation would be guaranteed safe passage in the tribal
> > lands of others who went through the same ceremony with them, the higher
> > the
> > level of initiation, usually the larger the territory open to them. Here,
> > in
> > Australia for example, "Men of High Degree" to use Elkin's term, could
> > travel virtually unhindered for thousands of kilometres, from one side of
> > the continent even to the other. Not unrelated to this was the special role
> > often granted to craftsmen, sometimes a priestly or other sacred status
> > perhaps (for ease of recognition) demonstrated by special dress.
> >
> > Personally, I can well believe our remote ancestors had thought up similar
> > systems for themselves....
> >
> >
> > Bob Hay

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