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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-05 > 1211563121


From: John Laws <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] S21/S28 Split+m223 stuff
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:18:41 -0700
References: <mailman.589.1211527322.562.genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.589.1211527322.562.genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com>


Hello S28+ Cousin Bob,

I agree that for my information desires, an understanding of my
ancestors past, a multidisciplinary approach is critical. I sometimes
worry if this list is the proper vehicle. Perhaps the
DNA-Anthrogenealogy
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DNA-ANTHROGENEALOGY;_ylc=X3oDMTJlanU2bDgzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE2NDc1Njk5BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTY5MDkzMgRzZWMDaGRyBHNsawNocGgEc3RpbWUDMTIxMTE0MDI5Mw-->;
list would make more sense. The genetic tree is an important piece of
the puzzle. I am grateful to those who work so hard on it. I routinely
read this list as I believe it to be the best source of information to
keep abreast of the field.

I have been focusing on the S28/U152 line historical movement. I have
tried to contribute with my mapping skills and produced the S28 map of
Dr. Faux's database. I still need to add in to the map the latest data
dump, but movement patterns are definitely suggested by the data. Of
course, most of us know the large areas on missing data, i.e. for S28+
France and Denmark. I would guess we will see S28 concentrations in
northern and eastern France along with northern Denmark.

I have also been playing with looking at micro patterns. For instance, I
have been mapping out the S28+ subset of those who's DNA has the
closest matches with myself. It seems to indicate a trail through
Belgium to East Anglia for my family. David Weston who leads the East
Anglia project has espoused the concept of multiple S28+ migrations, and
not just the Dr. Faux Danelaw Viking theory. If I remember right, your
line is from the east coast of Scotland, which I wouldn't be surprised
would fall into the Danelaw S28+ migration theory as I would guess it to
be the largest to the UK. There appears to be a S28+ micro pattern that
is a Palatine region of Germany to colonial Pennsylvania based upon
religious persecution (protestants). Anyway, I hope to utilize this
method to develop a picture of where our line was, say in the 16th
century at best by crossing DNA testing with genealogy. For earlier
times, DNA may be the best tool.

John Laws
ZGNQS S28/U152+

>
> John, it seems to me that we on this list are going in the same
> direction the many related disciplines have gone, that is, not
> listening to each other's contributions. Dr. David Faux has long been
> suggesting - almost shouting in the wind sometimes - for a
> multi-disciplinary approach. Genetic genealogy so far has perhaps been
> less parochial than others such as linguistics and archaeology have
> been elsewhere but there is still a tendency to ignore the knowledge
> base and methodologies of other disciplines. Personally, I always read
> with pleasure Alan R's contributions here from his archaeological
> background and marvel at the breadth of Dr Faux's vision of the
> history of the Celtic peoples. I don't follow the statistical wizardry
> of Drs Nordtvedt, Mayka, Vizachero and the many others of this ilk,
> but I know what they do is essential and look forward to some eventual
> discovery. But, for all these fascinating contributions, I still think
> an earlier suggestion (maybe by the ubiquitous Dr Faux, I cannot be
> sure) would be a big advance, that some kind of consortium or
> colloquium be established to research and pool findings in a
> completely multi-disciplinary manner. To some extent this is what
> Jacques Beaugrand is doing with his S28+ Agora
> (http://cerbere.ca/S28/) but personally I would like to see the scope
> widened, so that people with special interests in areas of "Celtic" (I
> am a bit of Celtic sceptic) life and history could pool their
> researches so that the genetics might be better fleshed out by history
> and related disciplines. For example, although many of us might have
> some knowledge of the Druids, it could be greatly furthered if you
> were to take this as a special project and report your researches back
> to the colloquium..... Sometimes I think we get lost in alleles and
> SNPs and forget that our ancestors were once real people who had lives
> to live. Bob Hay at home at www.bobhay.net H3EQG - R1b-S28+

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