Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-06 > 1212467996

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Correlation of Y-haplogroups J2 andJ1with Neolithicagro-pastoral economies
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 22:39:56 -0600
References: <><BAY122-W316F60DED4E0213FD4C462DABA0@phx.gbl>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jackson Montgomery-Devoni" <>

> I think that you are right in what you say. They don't really know where
> IJ originated either but it would make good sense that it was in the
> Middle East or West Asia.> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 23:00:09 -0500> From:
> > To: > Subject: Re: [DNA]
> Correlation of Y-haplogroups J2 and J1 with Neolithicagro-pastoral
> economies> > On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 3:02 AM, Ken Nordtvedt
> <>> wrote:> I find the IJ MRCA for I and J to be
> 22,890 years ago Ken> > My response/question:> Just want to make sure I
> understand this correctly. The MRCA of IJ> is not the first occurence of
> an ancestor to all IJ's, the MRCA is> just "most recent" ancestor. That
> being said, there could be an IJ> type ancestor could have lived much
> earlier than 22,890 years ago,> it's just that he probably lived anywhere
> from 22,890 years ago until> earlier back to whenever IJ split off of from
> F-M89. In other words,> IJ may have arisen much earlier than 22,890 year!
> s ago, but just not> earlier than F-M89 arose. Am I understanding it
> correctly

Yes, the IJ MRCA is just the most recent fellow who was ancestral to both I
and J. Certainly his ancestors were also ancestral to I and J. IJ began
after F as you say. But how much after is more difficult to work out. I
can find the MRCA of J clades or I clades with the very small F clade found
in European databases today. And that gives me one estimate. It suggests
IJ was squeezed somewhat between previous node and terminal node, but the
confidence intervals on these estimates are pretty big. F survives in
Europe; IJ so far has not shown up.


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