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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-06 > 1214174713


From: marianne dillow <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Jewish E1b1b
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:45:13 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <165547.90760.qm@web36704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Thanks, after late pop ups. I finally see you can purchase it in English or Russian.

Marianne Dillow

Greek DNA project <> wrote:
Yes, it is in English ( well...hmmm )

--- On Sun, 6/22/08, marianne dillow <> wrote:
From: marianne dillow <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Jewish E1b1b
To: ,
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 3:40 PM

Sorry,

It popped up late after my answer. I now see where to buy it and the price. Now, my question is... is it in English ?

Marianne Dillow

Greek DNA project <> wrote:
http://tiny.cc/wVIsy

Look at the above link.

--- On Sun, 6/22/08, marianne dillow wrote:
From: marianne dillow
Subject: Re: [DNA] Jewish E1b1b
To:
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 3:16 PM

Excuse me please Anatole,

I think this list is just asking very simply on your method and your
device you have invented. There is nothing wrong with that. Instead you refer
everyone to your paper. Well, where is your paper and how much does it cost to
puchase it ? I guess if this list doesn't do that there will be no clear
answers to your methods. Eeveryone is really just trying to understand what you
are saying and doing. It is called sharing. Everyone on this list is interested
in new technology. :)

Marianne Dillow



Anatole Klyosov wrote:
>There would be nothing wrong with a very ambitious person saying that
they
are going to try to work with only STR information.

Dear Andrew,

I am just about to start laughing hysterically. It is just incredible.

O.K. Let me give you a simple analogy. Someone invented a device to separate
apples
and oranges and to put them into separate bins. And he did it successfully. He
(deliberately!!)
put a mix of apples and oranges in a hopper, and voila. They are separated. The
machine does it.

Now, he subscribed to a Forum on apples and oranges, and reported about his
good device.
The old-timers have immediately scolded him that he cannot mix apples and
oranges. They are separate
fruits, and should be handled separately.

Hey, guys - he said, I know it. That was exactly my point, that is how to
separate them. I mix them...

Stop it! - they yelled, you just cannot do it! You do not know very elementary
things! You have to learn first!

- Guys, he said, just be patient. My device was made to separate them, for God
sake.

- But didn't you say that you mixed them? - Yes, but... - No buts! You
cannot do it!

Now, one more an old-timer has appeared, and said - I did not follow the
discussion, but I have heard that you,
Ellen, said that fellow works with mix of apple and oranges? Well, he would not
go too far with his methods.

After the inventor has described his device 27 times, and referred to its
desctiption, they still were telling him -
- you cannot mix fruits.

Finally, a someone named Andrew appeared, and said - you now, guys, there would
be nothing wrong
with a very ambitious person saying that they are going to try to work with
only apples, without having
any information about oranges.

Now do you understand why I am just about to laugh hysterically?

***********************************


Andrew Lancaster wrote:

Sorry if I am dropping in at an awkward moment, but in case this helps
anyone:

Ellen's point, if generalized, seems to start with the fact that it is
quite
typical of all genetic genealogists to look for different sorts of data to
confirm their STR clustering: surnames, ethnic origins, SNP information etc.


There would be nothing wrong with a very ambitious person saying that they
are going to try to work with only STR information. But Ken has his
"Frisians" and other regional designations (Ken will repeat that this
is not
really serious for him, but it is; note conclusions about populations
history and don't focus too much on his strong feelings about the Irish
being European : ) ) and Anatole has his "Jewish" so in fact there is
no
one really doing this. And for good reason - STR data would be pretty
difficult to use on its own in at least many cases.

Ellen is therefore quite right in asking why one researcher may try to check
his data against a Jewish designation, and another may not argue that it
would be more accurate to split this designation up into groups like
Ashkenazi and Sephardi, given what is known about Jewish ethnic history.

And finally a comment about Anatole's published papers. With full respect,
many researchers in many fields end up being published in an expensive
journal. What they then to do is e-mail copies to people they know are
serious researchers in the same field. It just wouldn't work otherwise.

I think genetic genealogy is great precisely because of the way that
amateurs and professionals work together, all trained in different fields.
It reminds of some of the great moments in history. The very recent
extremist policies of international commerce concerning ownership of
intellectual property would have made those times impossible, and they do
not fit the paradigm which has developed successfully in this field.

Best Regards
Andrew Lancaster



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