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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-06 > 1214187432


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Jewish E1b1b
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:17:12 -0600
References: <936471110806221900k55aab769yfcb03e45ce9ef0c0@mail.gmail.com>


I'll run them. The 67 marker guys are best in my view. Ideal format would
be FTDNA order. First two columns of excel should be junk columns, then the
37 markers, then a space column and then 38-67. I erase the markers I don't
use myself.

Or you can go to http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net and Generations2.xls and
try it yourself. However the programmed excel spreadsheet is not too user
friendly.

Ken

----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Villarreal" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Jewish E1b1b


> >
>> From: "Ken Nordtvedt"
>>
>> I don't have Behar's haplotype data, but from my experience I would doubt
>> he
>> has separated it into isolated clades, because 1) academics rarely use
>> sufficient markers to do so, and 2) academics usually have a SNP fetish
>> and
>>
>> don't like to get their hands dirty identifying clades from extended STR
>> haplotypes.
>>
>> But let's say you have a collection of haplotypes for which the evidence
>> is
>>
>> good they descend from a common ancestor.
>> And you have another collection of haplotypes for which the evidence is
>> good
>> they descend from a different common ancestor. Note: SNP aficianados can
>> also do this with two haplotype populations identified as separate clades
>> by
>> having different SNP status measured on the two populations.
>>
>> The time back to the MRCA shared by both those clades (a time necessarily
>> earlier than the age of either clade) is robustly given by
>>
>> G = Sum over markers i of [ VarAB(i) w(i) ]
>> divided by 2 x Sum over markers i of [ m(i) w(i) ]
>>
>> with weighting factors w(i) given by expressions in my website
>> http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net
>> You won't go too far wrong using simple weighting factors of 1 for all i.
>>
>> For each marker
>> VarAB = Sum over a in A, Sum over b in B of (ra-rb)^2 / N(A) N(B)
>>
>> ra is the marker's repeat for haplotype a
>> rb is the marker's repeat for haplotype b
>> N(A) is number of haplotypes of clade A
>> N(B) is number of haplotypes of clade B
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> This is the interclade variance method
>>
>
>
>
> If you already have a spreadsheet setup with your formulas I can provide
> you
> with two sample haplotype collections from two distinct subclades. If you
> have the time and inclination just let me know what would be a minimum
> recordset of each and if you prefer 12 marker, 67 or in between. Thanks.
>
> Victor
>
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