GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-07 > 1215111205
From: Cheryl Simani <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] J1 clusters
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:53:25 -0700 (PDT)
During the second Temple times, family genealogies were kept in public archives. These records were consulted by the families before a marriage could take place.
The family from which I am derived is not an ignoble one, but hath descended all along from the priests; and as nobility among several people is of a different origin, so with us to be of the sacerdotal dignity, is an indication of the splendor of a family. Now, I am not only sprung from a sacerdotal family in general, but from the first of the twenty-four 1 courses; and as among us there is not only a considerable difference between one family of each course and another, I am of the chief family of that first course also; nay, further, by my mother I am of the royal blood; for the children of Asamoneus, from whom that family was derived, had both the office of the high priesthood, and the dignity of a king, for a long time together. I will accordingly set down my progenitors in order. My grandfather's father was named Simon, with the addition of Psellus: he lived at the same time with that son of Simon the high priest, who first of all the high priests
was named Hyrcanus. This Simon Psellus had nine sons, one of whom was Matthias, called Ephlias: he married the daughter of Jonathan the high priest, which Jonathan was the first of the sons of Asamoneus, who was high priest, and was the brother of Simon the high priest also. This Matthias had a son called Matthias Curtus, and that in the first year of the government of Hyrcanus: his son's name was Joseph, born in the ninth year of the reign of Alexandra: his son Matthias was born in the tenth year of the reign of Archclaus; as was I born to Matthias in the first year of the reign of Caius Caesar. I have three sons: Hyrcanus, the eldest, was born in the fourth year of the reign of Vespasian, as was Justus born in the seventh, and Agrippa in the ninth. Thus have I set down the genealogy of my family as I have found it described 2 in the public records, and so bid adieu to those who calumniate me [as of a lower original].
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, adam bradford <> wrote:
From: adam bradford <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] J1 clusters
Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 10:24 AM
A couple ancient haplotypes doesn't really constitute a control sample and
wouldn't necessarily enable you to answer any questions. Suppose your
long-dead cohen turns out not to match the cohen haplotype? You couldn't
really conclude from this that Josephus was not a cohen, nor that modern-day
folks with the Cohen haplotype aren't descended from ancient cohens.
2008/7/3 Cheryl Simani <>:
> These discussions of Haplotypes are fascinating. However, until a
> method of testing ancient DNA becomes standardized, we are actually only
> determining the distant between contemporary groups.
> We need to find the remains of a known cohen, for instance those of
> Josephus (37-100+ CE). Once his (uncontaminated) YDNA and mtDNA samples
> would be tested, then we would have a control sample for that time period.
> Since we are in a wishful-thinking mode, let's go all the way and ask
> for the additional samples of a cohen and a king of the Davidic line from
> the First Temple period as well.
> With such samples we would really be able to answer questions.
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message