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From: Didier VERNADE <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Age of R1b
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 06:21:35 +0200 (CEST)


Anatole,
This is a late answer and I realize that it's a bit aside of the main talk but my point is that the discovery of rs34276300 splitting R1b1b2 with hotspots of rs34276300- people in Holland and Austria is showing that most probably the higher variability among R1b1b2 in Spain is at the best a coincidence but more probably a failure of STR measurements . Not a single post on this list ever mentioned that after so many enthousiastic discussions on the Iberian refugium, rs34276300 split in R1b1b2 has vanished the Spanish exeption. I take this as a warning for further enthousiastic discussions.
If anyone thinks that there are still some rs34276300- to find in numbers in Spain and that it would explain the previously "established" heterogeneity of R1b1b2 in Spain, please speak up.

A post scriptum about my R1b1b2d mistake : it might be the same for R1b1b2d haplogroup because there are now a (small) number of very different R1b1b2d haplotypes from British isles and I am not sure any more that R1b1b2d has it's origin around the Basque area.

Didier



>
>
> From: Didier VERNADE < >
> >...when I started reading posts on this list it was a common place to say that R1b (actually R1b1c = R1b1b2) had a higher "heterogeneity" in Spain and therefore the origin was postulated in the Iberic peninsula. May I ask what are the actual data presently available ? Is there really a higher variability observed in R1b1b2 haplotypes from Spain ?
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> Didier,
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> It might be that wishful thinking, or a pure fantasy DNA genealogy is so rich with.
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> I have used for my considerations the FTDNA Public Basques Project, which contains 44 R1b 12-marker haplotypes, 17 R1b 25-marker haplotypes, and a lesser amount of 37- and 67-marker haplotypes.
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> All 44 12-marker haplotypes contain 140 mutations, that gives 4,325 years to a common ancestor.
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> To verify the figure, I built a 25-marker haplotype tree, which gave two branches, one, younger, with a common ancestor of 1,700+/-100 ybp, another, older, of 4,425 years (12-marker haplotypes of the older branch) and 4,025 years (25-marker haplotypes). If to compare mutations in the younger and the older 25-marker haplotypes, THEIR common ancestor lived 4,600 years BP.
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> I think the age of T-13910 gene of lactose tolerance (6,600-4,800 ybp) fits pretty well to that estimate. As it was already reported here, 92% of all tested Basques carry this gene.
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> David, do you want to add this figure to your "calibration" list?
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> Anatole Klyosov
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