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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-09 > 1220918821


From: "David Faux" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Age of R1b
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:07:01 -0700
References: <391127.94196.qm@web86607.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <391127.94196.qm@web86607.mail.ird.yahoo.com>


That is a huge IF Alan. The confidence interval extends many thousands of
years into the Paleolithic. Besides this one date cannot be accepted as the
most valid - one of the authors continues to use the ZUF rates and as far as
I know has no intention of amending these. You should know that Zhivotovsky
is viewed by many in the pop gen community as having one of these incredibly
insightful minds, much as Bandelt is viewed in the same light in relation to
mtDNA.

David K. Faux.


On 9/8/08, Alan R <> wrote:
>
> If Karafet et al date R1 is c. 18500 years ago then this post-dates even
> the last known pre-Neolithic intrusion into Europe, The last of these (and
> the only one that even the optimistic could stretch to link with the Karafet
> date) was the shadowy Badegoulian which had certainly entered west-central
> Europe about 20,000BP (probably uncalibrated therefore significantly older
> than 18,000BC and then France a little later. It appears to derive from
> older cold adapted cultures from eastern Europe and is thought to have been
> an important contributor to the Magdalenian which certainly did later
> re-expand from the western refugia area. This is certainly the only one
> that was within even remote touching/stretching distance of the Karefet
> dating. However the date is a little late and also if the date arrived at
> is for all R1, then clearly western R1b is going to have to be a lot
> younger. So, I dont think there is much comfort for the
> pre-Neolithic school in the Karafet dates. Certainly, the Karafet dating
> should never be mentioned in the same breath as the Aurignacian or western
> Gravettian arrival in Europe which clearly pre-date the Karafet dating. Its
> a pity Karafet didnt make a statement about the dating of western R1b. That
> would have been interesting.
>
> Alan
>
>

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