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From: "Dennis Wright" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now?
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:34:33 +1000

Anatole calculates the age of the split of two Asian R1b haplotypes:-

I got two sets of Asian haplotypes (Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Tadzhiks, Tuvans, Uygurs), both of them are derived from rather recent common
ancestors, 2,550 and 1,225 years BP, with the following base (ancestral) haplotypes:

13 22 14 11 13 17 12 12 12 13 13 30 15 9 9 11 11 23 15 20 29 12 15 15 17
13 19 14 11 13 13 12 12 14(13) 14 13 30 17 9 9 11 11 23 15 19 33 12 15 15 16

Each of them clearly went through a bottleneck, hence, their young age. However, their ancestral haplotypes differed from each other
by 9-10 mutations on the 12-marker panel, and by 17-18 mutations on the 25-marker panel. This corresponds to 690-810 generations on
12-marker panel, and 590-650 generations on the 25-marker panel, that is by 690+/-90 generations (more than 17,000 year-wide
diversion from THEIR common ancestor). Since we know that the recent common ancestors lived 1,225 and 2,550 years (49 and 122
generations, respectively) ago, it is easy to calculate that THEIR common ancestor lived (122+49+690)/2 = 430 generations ago, that
is approximately 10,800 years BP.

Anatole Klyosov

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Can you do the same with any cluster's modals?

For instance, the Atlantic Modal Haplotype AMH at 25 markers is:-
AMH 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17

What you calculate the number of generations for the following Irish clusters since they split from AMH?
A 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 16 17
B 13 24 14 10 11 15 12 12 11 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 29 15 15 17 17
C 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 17 8 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 13 13 15 17
D 13 24 14 10 12 15 13 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 18

Really keen to see your calculations ...

Dennis W