RootsWeb: GENEALOGY-DNA-L Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now?

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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-09 > 1222126177

From: "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now?
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 02:29:37 +0300
References: <200809222255.m8MMt9NC015973@mail.rootsweb.com><ED0C0DEB-57DC-4EF8-AE28-4A4BA70F3B58@vizachero.com>
In-Reply-To: <ED0C0DEB-57DC-4EF8-AE28-4A4BA70F3B58@vizachero.com>

On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 2:22 AM, Vincent Vizachero <> wrote: > ASD does not _necessarily_ "account for" bottlenecks, but it can be > used in special cases without being affected by them. Those special > cases include interclade TMRCA estimates of the sort that Ken, in > particular, has advocated. Dienekes has worked through this, as > have others. The expected value of the ASD-based interclade age estimate is not affected by bottlenecks, but the uncertainty about this estimate is. -- Dienekes' Anthropology Blog http://dienekes.blogspot.com

This thread:

[DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dennis Wright" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "J.M. or M.C. Aviles" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by charles <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by charles <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by charles <>
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>

[DNA] How do you figre ot what you are? R1b1c* by Nelda Percival <>
- Re: [DNA] How do you figre ot what you are? R1b1c* by "Mark D. Johnson" <>
  - Re: [DNA] How do you figre ot what you are? R1b1c* by Nelda Percival <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Gary Corbett" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Itzhak Epstein <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Cheryl Simani <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)

[DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Alan R <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by charles <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by charles <>

[DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Bob Hay <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by charles <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by charles <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by charles <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Tim Janzen" <>
        Re: [DNA] Age of L2+ by charles <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Tim Janzen" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by David F Reynolds <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by David F Reynolds <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Michael Walsh" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by David F Reynolds <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Michael Walsh" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dennis Wright" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Michael Walsh" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Alan R <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Anatole Klyosov" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
    - [DNA] R-P312? (was: What shall R1b1c call themselves now?) by Itzhak Epstein <>
      - Re: [DNA] R-P312? (was: What shall R1b1c call themselves now?) by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] R-P312? (was: What shall R1b1c call themselves now?) by Itzhak Epstein <>
        Re: [DNA] R-P312? (was: What shall R1b1c call themselves now?) by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] R-P312? (was: What shall R1b1c call themselves now?) by Itzhak Epstein <>
        Re: [DNA] R-P312? (was: What shall R1b1c call themselves now?) by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] R-P312? (was: What shall R1b1c call themselves now?) by "RICHARD KENYON" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Anatole Klyosov" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Bob Bootle" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        [DNA] Haplogroups? Clades? Haplotypes? (was: What shall R1b1c callthemselves now?) by Itzhak Epstein <>
        Re: [DNA] Haplogroups? Clades? Haplotypes? by "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <>
        Re: [DNA] Haplogroups? Clades? Haplotypes? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
        Re: [DNA] Haplogroups? Clades? Haplotypes? (was: What shall R1b1ccall themselves now?) by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] Haplogroups? Clades? Haplotypes? (was: What shall R1b1ccall themselves now?) by Vincent Vizachero <>
        Re: [DNA] Haplogroups? Clades? Haplotypes? (was: What shall R1b1ccall themselves now?) by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
        [DNA] nomenclature by David F Reynolds <>
        Re: [DNA] nomenclature by Katherine Hope Borges <>
        Re: [DNA] nomenclature by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] nomenclature by David F Reynolds <>
        Re: [DNA] nomenclature by David F Reynolds <>
        [DNA] mtdna question by Nelda Percival <>
        Re: [DNA] mtdna question by marianne dillow <>
        Re: [DNA] mtdna question by marianne dillow <>
        Re: [DNA] mtdna question by
        Re: [DNA] mtdna question by Nelda Percival <>
        Re: [DNA] mtdna question by
        Re: [DNA] mtdna question by Nelda Percival <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Thomas Gull <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Thomas Gull <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Alan R <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Lawrence Mayka" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        [DNA] Variance - was What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>
        Re: [DNA] Variance - was What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] Variance - was What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)
        Re: [DNA] Variance - was What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] Variance - was What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
        Re: [DNA] Variance - was What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] Variance - was What shall R1b1c call themselves by "Anatole Klyosov" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dennis Wright" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Alan R <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Anatole Klyosov" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dennis Wright" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Dennis Wright" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Jim T <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Anatole Klyosov" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Sasson Margaliot" <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "R. Stevens" <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Jim Cullen" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Anatole Klyosov" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Lawrence Mayka" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Anatole Klyosov" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Daniel Jenkins <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Daniel Jenkins <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Daniel Jenkins <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Tim Janzen" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Peter Langley" <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Beth Long <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Daniel Jenkins <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Michael Walsh" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Thomas Gull <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>
    - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
      - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Alfred A. Aburto Jr." <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Thomas Gull <>
        Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Vincent Vizachero <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Jim Cullen" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by Alan R <>
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "Alfred A. Aburto Jr." <>
  - Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by (John Chandler)

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by
- Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>

Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by