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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-09 > 1222129965


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:32:45 -0600
References: <200809222255.m8MMt9NC015973@mail.rootsweb.com><ED0C0DEB-57DC-4EF8-AE28-4A4BA70F3B58@vizachero.com><f3f05ce80809221629g47ffd6b0k46861eb9ccb8aa49@mail.gmail.com><00ec01c91d0c$951ae2b0$6400a8c0@Ken1><f3f05ce80809221719j304a5956x99bffc87c62dc6e@mail.gmail.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now?


>I am not quite sure what you mean. The worst-case variance of the age
> estimate occurs when both groups suffer a bottleneck long after their
> "Nodeman". In that case, the variance approaches the upper limit of an
> ASD calculation between a pair of haplotypes. This has a very wide
> confidence interval even if one uses a large number of markers and
> assumes perfect knowledge of mutation rate/generation length. Its
> best-case variance occurs when both groups go through a rapid
> expansion immediately after the time of the Nodeman. For every
> particular age estimate, the variance will be between these two
> extremes.
[[[[[That's what I said ]]]]]]
>
> To determine when/how the two groups behaved post-separation requires
> an estimate of their two TMRCAs; if these are very close to the
> "interclade" age estimate, then this is the best possible situation
> one may encounter.
[[[[ I would not characterise that as best possible situation, or worse, but
I think I know what you are getting at. You don't want the informational
void of the long branch line bottlenecks before the two clade MRCAs?]]]]]




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