GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-09 > 1222372530
From: "David Faux" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now?
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:55:30 -0700
In our fairly lengthy discourse on this subject of the dating of M269 etc.,
you have never resorted to name calling and angry frustration. Once I
retire I am going to go through the postings on dna-forums and list all of
the adjectives applied to me questioning my intelligence and my sanity :-)
You seem to be one of the few who realize that I am only standing up as some
quasi-representative of the "establihment", the mainstream views of
population geneticists as reflected in the literature from 2000 (with the
seminal work of Semino et al. and Rosser et al.) to today (e.g., the study
published less than a week ago by Mulligan et al.). I am in contact with
some of these academics and I do know their current views - but I am
criticized when I refuse to break confidentiality. Perhaps I have been a
bit intimidating for this reason, and for having something akin to (but
definitely not close enough) academic credentials in the area of study, and
having widely read in allied disciplines (e.g., archaeology, climatology) -
not that at my age any of this stuff sticks as well as it used to so others
now can talk circles around me and I cannot, as I once could, give back as
good as I get. It was probably somewhat unnerving to some that nothing
could "bring me to my senses". Of course we know that, "The Lord loves a
sinner who has come to His understanding". Sorry, I am not there yet.
Also I refuse to permit (if I can) the development of group think or group
polarization such that even those who really don't understand the arguments
are simply tugged (via social pressure) towards conforming with the "group
norm". So on two lists / forums I have fought a battle with few supporters
willing to weigh in - instead allowing me to take all of the heat. Since I
have skin as thick as an elephant's hide I guess this is ok. I seem to be
the person that people (some) love to hate.
Surely someone needs to stand fast and say "wooha les moteurs", and remind
people that the popular trendy new dates that have emerged via the work of
genetic genealogists simply do not mesh with those published by the
professional academic community. We are talking Bronze Age verus
Paleolithic, not about whether something was late Mesolithic or early
Neolithic! These ideas are truly radical.
So I am happy to exhange ideas, facts, concepts, new articles or whatever
with you because never once did I receive disrespect. A class act.
We can continue with these, possibly heated, discussions over the next few
months but other matters require my virtually undivided attention so that
anything I might offer for the next few weeks or months could be in the
category of "fluff" until I can get back on track. In the meanwhile it is
my hope that something new will be published on the subclades of M269 (three
greatgrandfathers were R-U152) and more work on M17 (my maternal
grandfather's haplogroup). Then we will have some more meat to chew on,
more grist to the mill, and of course something else to bicker about :-)
More later. Keep on posting, you have almost convinced me - just a little
bit more and I might well capitulate to the overwhelming weight of
evidence. Others too I suspect.
David K. Faux.
On 9/25/08, <> wrote:
> >David Faux
> >Below you refer to your book on the subject. I searched Amazon.com and
> up with books on "carbohydrate drug design" and "wood - plastic
> but saw nothing relating to population genetics. I presume that this is
> because it was written in Russian.
> Dear David,
> Thank you for such a lovely comment (>blushed<). It was, of course, a huge
> overestimation. I am not a magician, I am just learning.
> I have written a dozen of books, and most of them are written in Russian,
> indeed. A few of them are textbooks on chemical kinetics and enzyme
> kinetics, which explains my interest in "kinetics of mutation in
> haplotypes". Others are about enzymes, carbohydrates, biofuels, medical
> biochemistry, cancer research and some other pathologies. After all, I was
> Professor of Biochemistry at Harvard Medical School for a good number of
> years, but left for the biomedical industry. However, when I said "in my
> book" - it was figuratively, like "in my dictionary". Sorry for that
> confusion. I wrote indeed a few hundred pages on DNA genealogy, particularly
> on mutation rates, R1a1, R1b, on Jewish lineages in a number of haplogroups,
> on the Aryans and their incursions to India and Iran (based on
> haplotypes/haplogroups and on ancient sources) and "Indo-Europeans". It is
> of a great interest (to me at least) that the Vedas described some
> astronomical events which could have been observed in the Nor!
> thern h
> emisphere only 6,300 - 8,400 years ago. In fact, General Albert Pike
> obtained similar calculations from the observatory at Smithsonian
> Institution in 1873, though they were more simplified, but also pointed at
> about 7,000 years ago. To me, it does not contradict the R1a1 location in
> the Balkans those times. It sounds like a stretch, and it is, however, it
> fits the whole emerging and fascinating picture.
> There is no book as yet containing those writings, and I keep publishing
> them in the Proceedings of the Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy, as an
> educational tool mainly for the (young) Russians. By the way, little
> "profit" from it completely (100%) goes to help some of them to test their
> haplotypes, which many of them cannot afford. However, I am thinking to pack
> the writings into a book some day. That is why it is so important for me to
> communicate with great minds over here, and yours brightly among them. We
> all are learning and making mistakes, however, it is very important to see
> fruits of these communications here. And your summary today was one of those
> fine fruits. Thank you for that.
> Anatole Klyosov
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|Re: [DNA] What shall R1b1c call themselves now? by "David Faux" <>|