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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-11 > 1226252152


From: "R. Stevens" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] L21 and P66
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 12:35:52 -0500
References: <004101c94281$ad13f330$0201a8c0@Richard><ea3bd9560811090822s2f631ff6t8595f4ba9eb63c4f@mail.gmail.com><e2f96c1b0811090825x43f8b8d0vb01a901afd8f465@mail.gmail.com><ea3bd9560811090828l54f35083kb3930e94d513bf00@mail.gmail.com><003201c94289$a0368490$6400a8c0@Ken1><ea3bd9560811090845h5a7af7e6t27e325ef732035de@mail.gmail.com><00a201c9428b$b6fa8ad0$0201a8c0@Richard><ea3bd9560811090858v2668f4f7s965a513ba09e5ec8@mail.gmail.com><00c501c9428e$0f09f5b0$0201a8c0@Richard><000a01c9428e$dcef9d90$6400a8c0@Ken1>


Are you that convinced L21 is of entirely British origin?

I mean, I would be glad if that were true, since it would narrow down my
genealogical quest considerably.

But L21 is a brand new discovery, and, despite the overwhelming prevalence
of people of British Isles descent in genetic genealogy, we already have two
Germans (Krueger and Krahn), a Norwegian (Igland) and an unknown Italian
(our P66+ guy) who are L21+.

Can we write all of them off as the products of "British adventures"?

Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] L21 and P66


Ah, the power of statistics --- it saves us from unbounded speculations.
The L21+ NPE could have happened in Boston --- there's the little Italy
neighborhood on the NW side, and their's the Irish South Boston --- and the
MTA running between them. Boston is not very large.


----- Original Message -----
From: "R. Stevens" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] L21 and P66


Practically the same sort of thing could be said of any one specific sample.
It isn't P66 we're concerned with really; it's L21. It doesn't appear to be
"erratic" or private.

An Italian L21+ could be significant . . . could be. I don't assume anything
about it, especially since we know so little, but I am also not prepared to
dismiss it as the "love child" of some of WWII GI.

Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Faux" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] L21 and P66


The put a note or reality into all of this there were hundreds of thousands
of Australain, New Zeland, Canadian, Americans and so on at Monte Casino and
all over the Italian Peninsual during WWII. P66 is a definite "erratic" or
"outlyer" and little should be made of this sample knowing nothing of the
genealogy of the participant.

David K. Faux.


On 11/9/08, R. Stevens <> wrote:
>
> Ah! That is helpful. So apparently the P66+ guy is Italian or of Italian
> descent. Wish we knew who he was and where in Italy his y ancestor came
> from.
>
> So it is likely then that there is at least one Italian L21+.
>
> Rich
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Faux" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] L21 and P66
>
>
> Yes, you were indeed involved Ken :-)
>
> I checked my e-mail via the search feature and found out where I came up
> with the idea that P66 was from an Italian sample. A customer had
> e-mailed
> Bennett Greenspan and here follows the reply:
>
>
> Hi John
>
>
>
> Lots will be happening in the next year on R1b and I'd personally suggest
> that you NOT test our panel just for one marker. BTW P66+ has been found
> only in Italy so far, so it could represent people who were not in the
> Spanish refugee, but south of the Alps instead.
>
>
>
> Best Regards
>
>
>
> Bennett Greenspan
>
> President
> David K. Faux/
>
>
> On 11/9/08, Ken Nordtvedt <> wrote:
> >
> > That may have been me. I do remember getting a P66 sample but then a
> > lab
> > running out of the tiny quantity of material or finding it inadequate in
> > some way to complete the requested tests. I was to split the cost with
> > another interested person.
> > So long, long ago. I'm sort of glad P66 is still private, otherwise the
> > failure of that whole enterprise would be even more disappointing.
> > Maybe
> > one of my email files can shed light on the history?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Faux" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:28 AM
> > Subject: Re: [DNA] L21 and P66
> >
> >
> > Virtually nothing. Perhaps the person who obtained the sample for EA
> > will
> > know. He monitors this List.
> >
> > David K. Faux.
> >
> >
> > On 11/9/08, Robert Tarín <> wrote:
> > >
> > > So what do we know about the origin of this P66?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 10:22 AM, David Faux <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am embarassed to say that the linking of P66 and Italy came from
> > > > me
> > > > and
> > > > dates back to the time that EA tested the sample for STRs. It is
> > > strictly
> > > > hearsay and should never have been "etched in stone".
> > > >
> > > > David K. Faux.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 11/9/08, R. Stevens <> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > If I recall correctly, P66 is probably a private SNP, found in one
> > > family
> > > > > of Italian(?) descent. The ISOGG R tree shows P66 as downstream of
> > > > > L21.
> > > > Do
> > > > > we have a confirmed Italian L21+ then? Or am I way off?
> > > > >
> > > > > I tried searching for info on P66, but it doesn't seem to be
> readily
> > > > > available.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Rich
>

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