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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-11 > 1226794861


From: Al Aburto <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] rs35248080
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:21:56 -0800
References: <491F3CB3.4020303@san.rr.com><1381924.82609.1226789478467.JavaMail.www@wwinf1a32>
In-Reply-To: <1381924.82609.1226789478467.JavaMail.www@wwinf1a32>


Hi Didier,
The J2a (really J2, in general) are found mostly in the Mediterranean
Sea countries and Islands, and in the New World Countries (from the
exploits of the Iberians, and from population movements of the Jewish
People). The origin of J2 is placed in Anatolia although there are hot
spots in various countries in the Middle East (Iran, Iraq, Syria,
Lebanon, Israel, ..., and also extreme, but tiny, hot spots are also
found in various groups in Georgia and adjacent countries , ...) as well
as in the coastal areas of the Med (North Africa, Greece, Italy) and
Islands (Sicily, Crete, ...). The Jews are a part of all this too.
They are one of the largest groups in J2. On 23andMe, since we are
sharing, you can see the frequency of J2 in the paternal page by
clicking on my haplogroup. I am really J2a1*, but 23andMe labels me as
J2 as for some odd reason I had a no-call on M410 (J2a)(i4000123) and so
did the latest J2 person, Dube, posted on Adriano's list yesterday I
think. He is J2a* (upstream of M410) and he also had a no-call on
M410. The density of J2 just south of Italy and Greece in North Africa
seems quite a strong hot-spot for J2 too. J2a's sister clade J2b is
also found in various places in the Med coastal countries. J2b's origin
appears to be in the Balkans, but according to 23andMe its frequency
distribution looks very similar to J2's...

I (& David Dugas too and many others) belong to a J2a1* cluster called
pre-J2a1h (by Bonnie's J Project) and J2a-beta (by Angela Cone's J2
project). This cluster is primarily characterized by the STRs: DYS450=9
and DYS445=10. David Dugas & I have been on a campaign the last year to
find as many of these pre-J2a1h haplotypes as possible and today I have
a database of over 300 of them (confirmed, and estimated via a Bayesian
J2 cluster predictor program similar in operation to Whit's Haplogroup
Predictor). pre-J2a1h (J2a-beta) appears to be about 10% of the J2
population and J2a1h (having DYS450=9 & DYS445=6) also appears to be
about 10% or so of the J2 population. Together these J2a1* groups
account for quite a large part of J2 and J2a in particular. The age of
pre-J2a1h seems to be about 6000 years old (from now) and that of J2a1h
about 3500 years according to Ken's Generations2.xls program.

So yes(!), there was a lot expected from the haplotypes (pre-J2a1h). Lo
and behold, thanks to 23andMe and Dr. King we found a SNP that will
place our group on the Y-DNA tree ...
Al


> Didier VERNADE wrote:
>
> Thank you Al. Could you please remind us (those not particularly familiar with J2a geographical spread) where are J2a ? Is this new SNP providing any clue for a geographical split ? I understand that very few results are in for the moment but was there anything expected from the haplotypes ?
>
> Didier
>
>
>
>
>> Hi List,
>> As you know the rs35248080(L24) 23andMe SNP I had is turning out to be
>> fairly significant in J2a1. I am sure it will define a new subclade of
>> J2a1. Also it does not appear to be a private SNP as David Dugas
>> pointed out to me since it was first found in an unknown person by the
>> International Genome Sequencing Consortium in 2003, then Adriano Squecco
>> spotted it again in a person named Krol in the DecodeMe results, and
>> then it was spotted again in myself where it was, in addition, found to
>> be negative in Dr. King (J2a1b). I knew something very interesting was
>> afoot then! For two days I struggled to get the news off to the list,
>> but for some strange reason the post would not post! I was never so
>> frustrated!! Murphy's Law is all powerful! Finally Jim Bullock helped
>> me and Bonnie was good enough to wait for me to post before writing more
>> about this SNP. Well, all I can say is that it is great being one of
>> the pioneers in this field of genetic history (genealogy)! The real
>> person behind all this effort though is Dr. King who made a connection
>> with 23andMe and advised them (I am assuming, I don't really know) to
>> increase the number Y-SNPs being tested to a total of 2042 Y-SNPs. This
>> was the key point (the 2042 SNPs) that got me to test with 23andMe and
>> what a surprise that was! This new J2a1 clade, whatever it is to be
>> named, will be a significant part of J2a I am sure. Currently it is not
>> known if J2a1h will follow pre-J2a1h as no J2a1h (yet) has tested with
>> 23andMe. I am confident though that J2a1h will also be a member of this
>> new J2a1 clade (that J2a1h will test positive for rs35248080 (L24)).
>> Nothing makes more sense to me since pre-J2a1h and J2a1h are linked
>> together by DYS450=9 (found almost no where else in Y-DNA J other than
>> pre-J2a1h and J2a1h). We'll see what happens in the next few months ...
>> very interesting times are afoot for J2a...
>> Al
>>


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