GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-11 > 1226847928


From: Al Aburto <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] rs35248080
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 07:05:28 -0800
References: <172968.6360.qm@web111416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <172968.6360.qm@web111416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


A good summary of recent news and information regarding J2 is found in
David Dugas' Haplogroup J2 blog. The URL is
"http://m172(dot)blogspot(dot)com"; ...
Al

PS: I'm sending this as a test since an earlier post using the actual
URL did not make it through to the list it appears. I noticed this
problem before as certain characters and words or phrases will cause
this list to block the post ...


> Beth Long wrote:
> Hi Al,
>
> I didn't see mention of J2a2 in this, and am wondering where they fit in. Our project has ten J2, two of whom have deen deep-clade tested. One is J2a2 and the other is J2a2a.
>
> Beth Long
>
> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Al Aburto <> wrote:
>
> From: Al Aburto <>
> Subject: Re: [DNA] rs35248080
> To: "Didier VERNADE" <>,
> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 4:21 PM
>
> Hi Didier,
> The J2a (really J2, in general) are found mostly in the Mediterranean
> Sea countries and Islands, and in the New World Countries (from the
> exploits of the Iberians, and from population movements of the Jewish
> People). The origin of J2 is placed in Anatolia although there are hot
> spots in various countries in the Middle East (Iran, Iraq, Syria,
> Lebanon, Israel, ..., and also extreme, but tiny, hot spots are also
> found in various groups in Georgia and adjacent countries , ...) as well
> as in the coastal areas of the Med (North Africa, Greece, Italy) and
> Islands (Sicily, Crete, ...). The Jews are a part of all this too.
> They are one of the largest groups in J2. On 23andMe, since we are
> sharing, you can see the frequency of J2 in the paternal page by
> clicking on my haplogroup. I am really J2a1*, but 23andMe labels me as
> J2 as for some odd reason I had a no-call on M410 (J2a)(i4000123) and so
> did the latest J2 person, Dube, posted on Adriano's list yesterday I
> think. He is J2a* (upstream of M410) and he also had a no-call on
> M410. The density of J2 just south of Italy and Greece in North Africa
> seems quite a strong hot-spot for J2 too. J2a's sister clade J2b is
> also found in various places in the Med coastal countries. J2b's origin
> appears to be in the Balkans, but according to 23andMe its frequency
> distribution looks very similar to J2's...
>
> I (& David Dugas too and many others) belong to a J2a1* cluster called
> pre-J2a1h (by Bonnie's J Project) and J2a-beta (by Angela Cone's J2
> project). This cluster is primarily characterized by the STRs: DYS450=9
> and DYS445=10. David Dugas & I have been on a campaign the last year to
> find as many of these pre-J2a1h haplotypes as possible and today I have
> a database of over 300 of them (confirmed, and estimated via a Bayesian
> J2 cluster predictor program similar in operation to Whit's Haplogroup
> Predictor). pre-J2a1h (J2a-beta) appears to be about 10% of the J2
> population and J2a1h (having DYS450=9 & DYS445=6) also appears to be
> about 10% or so of the J2 population. Together these J2a1* groups
> account for quite a large part of J2 and J2a in particular. The age of
> pre-J2a1h seems to be about 6000 years old (from now) and that of J2a1h
> about 3500 years according to Ken's Generations2.xls program.
>
> So yes(!), there was a lot expected from the haplotypes (pre-J2a1h). Lo
> and behold, thanks to 23andMe and Dr. King we found a SNP that will
> place our group on the Y-DNA tree ...
> Al
>
>
> > Didier VERNADE wrote:
>
>>
>> Thank you Al. Could you please remind us (those not particularly familiar
>>
> with J2a geographical spread) where are J2a ? Is this new SNP providing any
> clue for a geographical split ? I understand that very few results are in for
> the moment but was there anything expected from the haplotypes ?
>
>> Didier
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi List,
>>> As you know the rs35248080(L24) 23andMe SNP I had is turning out to be
>>>
>
>
>>> fairly significant in J2a1. I am sure it will define a new subclade
>>>
> of
>
>>> J2a1. Also it does not appear to be a private SNP as David Dugas
>>> pointed out to me since it was first found in an unknown person by the
>>>
>
>
>>> International Genome Sequencing Consortium in 2003, then Adriano
>>>
> Squecco
>
>>> spotted it again in a person named Krol in the DecodeMe results, and
>>> then it was spotted again in myself where it was, in addition, found
>>>
> to
>
>>> be negative in Dr. King (J2a1b). I knew something very interesting was
>>>
>
>
>>> afoot then! For two days I struggled to get the news off to the list,
>>>
>
>
>>> but for some strange reason the post would not post! I was never so
>>> frustrated!! Murphy's Law is all powerful! Finally Jim Bullock
>>>
> helped
>
>>> me and Bonnie was good enough to wait for me to post before writing
>>>
> more
>
>>> about this SNP. Well, all I can say is that it is great being one of
>>> the pioneers in this field of genetic history (genealogy)! The real
>>> person behind all this effort though is Dr. King who made a connection
>>>
>
>
>>> with 23andMe and advised them (I am assuming, I don't really know)
>>>
> to
>
>>> increase the number Y-SNPs being tested to a total of 2042 Y-SNPs.
>>>
> This
>
>>> was the key point (the 2042 SNPs) that got me to test with 23andMe and
>>>
>
>
>>> what a surprise that was! This new J2a1 clade, whatever it is to be
>>> named, will be a significant part of J2a I am sure. Currently it is
>>>
> not
>
>>> known if J2a1h will follow pre-J2a1h as no J2a1h (yet) has tested with
>>>
>
>
>>> 23andMe. I am confident though that J2a1h will also be a member of
>>>
> this
>
>>> new J2a1 clade (that J2a1h will test positive for rs35248080 (L24)).
>>> Nothing makes more sense to me since pre-J2a1h and J2a1h are linked
>>> together by DYS450=9 (found almost no where else in Y-DNA J other than
>>>
>
>
>>> pre-J2a1h and J2a1h). We'll see what happens in the next few
>>>
> months ...
>
>>> very interesting times are afoot for J2a...
>>> Al
>>>
>>>
>
>
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