GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-11 > 1228095098
From: "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] TRMCA for R1b1
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 03:31:38 +0200
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:18 AM, Vincent Vizachero <> wrote:
> Come on, this is absurd.
> The point that should be addressed is whether the argument - Semino's
> argument - that R1 WAS in Europe before or during the LGM is flawed.
As I already mentioned, I said that they overstretched their evidence
to arrive at that conclusion. That, of course, does not imply that
they were wrong, only that the case they presented wasn't strong
> The best estimate we have for the TMRCA of R1 is 18.5 kya, and the
> date is just as likely to be more recent as to be more ancient. To
> put this guy in Europe we would need some evidence that descendant
> nodes (R1, R1a, R1a1, R1b, R1b1, R1b1b1, R1b1b2, R1b1b3, etc) are more
> ancient in Europe than elsewhere. In most, if not all, of these cases
> the evidence points in the exact opposite direction: towards central
> or western Asia.
I don't see evidence for your last sentence. At least for R1a the
evidence points to Europe as the place of origin; The case for R1b is
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