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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2008-12 > 1230663116
From:
Subject: Re: [DNA] Y SNP mutation rates
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:51:56 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <102BD672-2D56-40FC-8C15-7024232BC74C@vizachero.com>
Got it. I think I'll ask FTDNA about that figure after the dust settles following the website revision. The every few hundred years figure they quote might discourage SNP testing.
Kirsten
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vincent Vizachero" <>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 12:56:33 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [DNA] Y SNP mutation rates
Kirsten,
The lower rate (1 mutation per 400 years) may trace back to a
discussion about a limited set of SNPs, not about the whole Y.
For example the HapMap project sequenced a small set of the Y for a
smallish set of men, a process which generated a set of about 200-300
Y-SNPs for a large part of the whole Y tree. And 23andMe is testing a
set of 1821 previously discovered Y-SNPs.
As you partition those DISCOVERED and PLACED Y-SNPs on any particular
branch, you find that subset of Y-SNPs will work out to about 1 SNP
per 200 to 1000 years depending on which set of SNPs, which
haplogroup, etc.
That's NOT an accurate estimate of the mutation rate, but rather a
proxy for the conflation of two factors: mutation rate and search
intensity (that is, how much effort went into searching for SNPs on
any particular branch).
I don't think we have a particularly good estimate of Y-DNA mutation
rates, nor is it clear how much of the Y can be reliably genotyped for
Y-SNPs. But the response Ken gave (assuming a rate of 1 mutation over
the relevant chromosome per generation or two) is probably the best we
can do for now.
Vince
On Dec 30, 2008, at 12:35 PM, wrote:
> Recently I think Ken quoted a SNP mutation rate of every 400 years
> or so, and I see that the FTDNA website also says that SNPs happen
> every few hundred years. I take that to mean that along any one Y
> chromosome line, the average interval between SNP mutations anywhere
> on the Y is a few hundred years. That's considerably less frequent
> than some of the estimates that I have seen in the past, such as the
> once every 4 generations or even once per generation figures that I
> have seen on this list. It seems to me that this newer, lower
> estimated mutation rate has some pretty important implications for
> haplogroup research, so it would be nice to know more about this
> statistic. If it is accurate, then other unusual mutation events
> that I don't know much about might be even more important to people
> trying to resolve the Y tree than was previously thought.
>
> So, can anyone tell me more about Y SNP mutation rates or unusual
> mutation events affecting the Y chromosome?
>
> Kirsten Saxe
>
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