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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2009-01 > 1230930520


From: "David Faux" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Neolithic Advance of R-M269 into Western Europe (2007article)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:08:40 -0800
References: <ea3bd9560901011549u7c116cb4n73de0b289969d59f@mail.gmail.com><f3f05ce80901011703n7790996aj718403d07a1bf10e@mail.gmail.com><F13AB136-9DF4-47D3-BC0B-49FCAE9ED60A@vizachero.com><f3f05ce80901020559n644ced21oa6d445560b92d1bb@mail.gmail.com><A9F3C47F-262E-4A21-8FE9-6835E67247CF@vizachero.com><f3f05ce80901021242y7ae9ff56sc8f3187b4039c33a@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <f3f05ce80901021242y7ae9ff56sc8f3187b4039c33a@mail.gmail.com>


Will it ever be possible to reach consensus on the matter? I brought this
article to the fore in the hopes that it would help to clarify what to me
had become an area as foggy as what I see outside my window today.

In many respects those of us whose skills lie elsewhere are dependent on
those who are well versed and highly conversant with the intricacies of
mathematics and complex algorithms.

Hence is there a way that Tim and Ken and Vince and Dienekes (sorry if I
have left anyone out) can brainstorm and come to anything resembling an
agreement on this subject. Most of us just want to see something specific
which can in turn be related to other areas of study such as archaeology and
linguistics.

The questions I would like to have answered if possible is when M269 left
Asia (so archaeologists can plot out likely routes of migration), when and
where P312 hived off the main trunk, and the same for all of the downstream
clades. Thus if the mathematicians could provide this input, I could for
example come up with some likely scenarios of "what U152 was up to" at any
particular time.

The two broad Neolithic "incursions" (assuming that there was demic
diffusion not simply cultural adoption) were via the LBK in northern Europe
into the regions of loess soils as far west as the Benelux region; and the
Cardial Impressed Ware in southern Europe (largely along the coastal
margins), "node hopping" rapidly from the Balkans to Portugal. It may
be difficult to explain the U152 hotspot at the junction of the Danube and
Rhine Rivers and in Switzerland in terms of these two possible migrations,
but if the dating was bracketed closely (tight confidence intervals), I
think this could be done (and also for other haplogroups within the broad
"R1b" category).

Here's hoping.

David K. Faux.

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