GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2009-03 > 1236166426
From: Daniel Jenkins <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Into Netherlands?
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 11:33:46 +0000
You obviously are a student of the history of the Netherlands .
Its is very hard to use precision in dating events from 750bc to 750 ad in that part of the world . By 724 Frisia was under complete control of the Franks and gained reindependence
after Charlemagne . His era was the pinnacle of Frankish dominence .
I find the history of the Frisian people very interesting . They were highly respected by the Romans .
I think looking generally , and at the larger landscape of history is better to gain an understanding . I hated history in school and think it was because of the intense pressure to memorize exact dates and places . And the history books used were directed by
those who wanted to make sure we were exposed only to that which they ascribed to be the truth .
Now history , as well as genealogy and genetic genealogy is my passion .
By the way I am one of those Kentish R1a1* not I1 <(;-)
I know Ken really already knows what I send , but do make posts in the interest of new people joining the list that may benefit .
> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 07:34:35 +0100
> Subject: [DNA] Into Netherlands?
> Hi Daniel, Ken
> " was pretty much under the umbrella of the Frankish Empire."
> I don't think you can generalize about the area like this. The southern part
> of the area Ken named was already becoming Frankish at this time, though
> there was not yet a Frankish empire.
> But Frisia was still not under Frankish power until the time of Charlemagne
> I believe, around 800.
> "My best guess is that the Belgium area was now more influenced by French"
> That is a confusing statement for this period. A big part of what became
> Belgium was at this time the core of the developing Salian nation, which
> would become the core of the Frankish empire. Try Googling Toxandria. So
> this area was breaking off from Gaul, and in turn starting to influence
> Coming back to Ken's question, the Toxandrian area in the southeast of the
> area Ken named had been taking immigrants from the east, modern Germany,
> since before Caesar. The North, for example Frisia, and the coast, including
> the coast of Belgium, had been receiving coast hopping Germanic from the
> direction of Scandinavia since some point during the Roman empire.
> Concerning the admixture between Gaulo-Romans and newcomers, this would of
> course partly depend on birthrates of the two groups.
> Best Regards
> From: Daniel Jenkins <>
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Into Netherlands?
> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 01:18:11 +0000
> References: <002601c99c32$d6152e60$>
> In-Reply-To: <002601c99c32$d6152e60$>
> The area was aleady populated by many people that were an amalgen of
> Jutes , Angles-Saxons , which people were of Frisian and North Germanic
> tribes and was pretty much under the umbrella of the Frankish Empire. It was
> about at this time , that these same people moved onward into SouthEast
> There doesn't seem to be a known replacement into the main homeland of the
> many Belgic tribes . The Franks thought they did ,but didn't really have a
> good hold on these Gaulic/Celtic belicose tribes . Thus with the
> Christianization of the Franks , these non -Christians must have decided to
> get out of town . My best guess is that the Belgium area was now more
> influenced by French , Brittany ,on one part and Nordic immigres on the
> other part . Thus the Walloons and Belgics , starting in the 800s onward
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