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From: "Lancaster-Boon" <>
Subject: [DNA] revised TMRCA calcuations for the R-L21 results
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:57:39 +0200


Hi Steve

The exact patterns are going to vary around Europe and even within
countries, but for what it is worth, my research into Northern England seems
to show a few things...

1. Having lots of children who lived to adulthood does not seem to go up as
you move up the scale from small scale farmer to true aristocrat. In fact,
I'd say the opposite. I guess the lifestyles of the rich and famous were not
often conducive to healthy and happy families.

2. I'd say mid class land owners had the most reproductive success in that
region.

3. The chances of extinction for any lineage coming out of a big family were
strongly tied to the success of these families in getting all the children
some sort of link to land or a profession. It was a major concern that they
spent a lot of time and effort on.

4. Nevertheless, you do see cases which appear to show that some lineages
coming out of big families ended up at the bottom of the pile, working the
land for someone else.

5. Such people right at the bottom of the pile did not have that much
success in bringing up children until recent centuries I think (maybe the
18th in England?), and so I think that there must have been a constant
replacement of this population with many lines dieing out, but new lines of
day workers entering the group from families that could not keep their
position so to speak.

It is a fascinating subject, because as the economy became more efficient in
England in the 18th century you can clearly see how the above cycle went out
of equilibrium allowing major population growth because suddenly families
could find their way more easily as new types of work started to appear. The
need to have land became less important and eventually you see a Middle
Class forming, especially in Northern England.

If you consider all the engineers and new money in the 19th century in
Lancashire, many of these people were descended from lesser landed families
out in the hills of Westmorland or Lancashire, but from the "unlucky" sons
who did not get the land.

Best Regards
Andrew


---
From: Steven Bird <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] revised TMRCA calcuations for the R-L21 results
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 16:58:29 -0400
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>

It's not that the wealthy had larger families; it is theorized that they had
a higher probability of their children surviving to adulthood, to reproduce
on their own.

Steve Bird


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