GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-01 > 1263193249


From: Ian Charold Herriott <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] RES: Jewish DNA in the Genome of Mexican-Americans
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:00:49 -0900
References: <2E34EA42B72746E5B1FFC3303E98EAD4@Silva><748104.16429.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <748104.16429.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I'm no expert on these topics, but I thought those reading this thread
might be interested that yesterday Israel's influential Haaretz
newspaper published an article about the genetic genealogy of
Portugese Jewish ancestry.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1141335.html

Ian

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Gary Felix <> wrote:
> Hello Grandcross,
> in reference to the Santoscoy line here is what I research for a project member:
> Haplogroup J1. See these YDNA 9 marker match(es) to Chihuahua Mexico,
> others in Latin America and Azkenazi Jew(s) in this -  HRD database search.
> See this DNA match to haplotype 108 which matches a 3 Askenazi Jews and 1
> Muslim Kurd in this study   Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East.
> See this DNA match to haplotype 254 or 255 (depending on SNP) -  Population Structure in the Mediterranean Basin: A Y Chromosome Perspective.
> See this DNA match to haplotype 27 [listed as the Cohen Modal Haplotype (when it was 6 markers)] -
>  High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews.
> See this 12 of 13 marker match to haplotype IP167 in Southern Portugal and this 8 marker Sephardic
> Jewish exact match to haplotype SJ62 in this study  Paternal Lineages of Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the Iberian Peninsula. The de los Santos Coy line is from Lepe Huelva (coming to Saltillo in 1632) and shared genetics is in Southern Portugal and shows a Iberian Sephardic match. The book the Jews in New Spain states "After 1492, and to a greater extent after 1580, Jews traveled back and forth between Portugal and Spain".
>
> The Jewish population of Spain would have been found in small towns see The Spanish Inquisition by Kamen.
>
> Not familiar enough with the Sephardic in Portugal to say where but I would consider it likely. It seems there would be areas where Jews expanded and as long as their genetics dominate the area there will be founder effect as in the subject paper.
>
> I would take estimates of Jews in Iberia from the time of the Inquisition with a grain of salt.
>
> Gary
> Mexico DNA Project Admin.
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 1/10/10, grandcross <> wrote:
>
> From: grandcross <>
> Subject: Re: [DNA] RES:  Jewish DNA in the Genome of Mexican-Americans
> To:
> Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 1:42 AM
>
> Hello Gary:
>
> I read with more than passing interest your thesis there exists presumably
> credible ...."evidence of substantial Sephardic Origin in those with Mexican
> Ancestry". I have a fair knowledge of Spanish genetics but usually avoid
> commenting when someone brings that subject up since it is not an area of
> primary interest to me and my understanding of it is somewhat limited.
> However, you go on to say "I have some evidence that my de los Santos Coy
> line (a Northeastern Mexico founder line) straddled the Portuguese Spanish
> border from Lepe Helva (I assume you meant Huelva) not far from the
> Portuguese border. I suspect they went to wherever country was the safest at
> the time and about 1623 came to Northern Mexico from there."
>
> When you say "from there" do you mean Portugal? Can you provide a specific
> historical source for your suspicion a Sephardic person or persons walked
> the 25 kilometers from Lepe in the province of Huelva across the border to
> Portugal and then traveled from there to Northern Mexico around the year
> 1623? The Jewish population of Portugal in 1631 is believed to be
> approximately 10,000; that is, about 0.8% of all the inhabitants in the
> country. (see Carvalho, 1999). The great majority of them were found in
> major cities, principally Lisbon. Portugal was under the rule of a Spanish
> monarch and restrictive laws dealing with the movements of Jews and Muslims
> were still being enforced.
>
> You also said there were a few towns in Iberia from which evidence arises
> "...of a Jewish founder effect in autosomal DNA." None of those you
> specifically listed are Portuguese. Do you contend such places exist in
> Portugal and, if so, where?
>
> I've read the paper "Phylogeographic Analysis of Paternal Lineages in NE
> Portuguese Jewish Communities". There are no footnotes. I can't tell which
> communities were tested but under the heading "Literature Cited" there are
> 44 references. Unfortunately, most are not readily available online for
> review so it's hard to evaluate the strength of the conclusions the authors
> reached and this is particularly worrisome because the number of persons of
> presumed Jewish descent they treated is only 57 out of a population in the
> region exceeding 100,000.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>


This thread: