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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-01 > 1263263095


From: Alan R <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R-L21 possible areas of origin
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 02:24:55 +0000 (GMT)


I just want to clarify my last post on beakers. The Iberian beaker origin theory seems to be very much accepted among the specialists in that area.  I am not aware of any counterclaims for a different origin for beakers since the Iberian origin theory has become widely accepted.  My own comment (based on the third map on the link I posted) that the third map is less clear-cut in terms of Iberia being the earliest beaker area was just a passing observation based partly on that map but mainly on cynicism at the frequency that the interpreatin of beaker origins change.  The hypothetical east-west route that would match the phylogeny of R1b1b2 was completely hypothetical and designed to describe a route that would fit the phylogeny of R1b1b2. 

However, untl the experts in the field of beakers change their mind or new finds force them to do so, it is best to accept that the people with the most knowledge on the subject seem to strongly favour the Iberian beaker origin.  This seems totally incompatible with the south-east to west/north-west overall phylogeny of R1b1b2. 

If the Iberian beaker theory is correct then the best one could possibly claim for the beakers is that they could have spread S116 out of Iberia.  However, that would then beg the question of how S116 got to Iberia in the first place from the SE areas where more ancestral forms of R1b1b2 seem to be located.  I am unaware of a major obvious pre-beaker culture that linked Iberia and SE Europe unless one goes all the way back to the Cardial culture c. 6000BC.  That obviously is much too early for the suggested MRCA dates. If there were links between Iberia and SE Europe (perhaps via Italy) in the pre beaker era (say the 4th millenium BC) then they must have been fairly subtle.    

Alan      

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