Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1266060997

From: Alan R <>
Subject: [DNA] Re (DNA): variance of S116*
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:36:37 +0000 (GMT)

In theory, most population movements have entered western Europe by either a Danubian or a Mediterranean route or much more rarely by some route from the east to the Baltic.  That being so, the original route (and of course the origin point) should have higher variance than the areas it only spread to in later secondary movements.  As S116* must by phylogenetic definition include some lineages that are older than L21, U152 etc, it would be interesting to know how the variance of this group varies on an area by area basis in much the same way as L21 has been looked at.  If it travelled along the Med then we would expect a decrease in variance along the Med. from east to west (say from Italy to Iberia) and for all Med. S116* to have significantly more variance than all central/north European S116*.  However, if S116* moved along a Danubian route then we would expect central European S116* to have significantly more variance than all of the Med.
and also for central European S116* variance to decrease from east to west.

I suspect that there is not a sufficient sample in eastern Europe to alloow much better than a comparison of S116* in 

1. Italy (as a more easterly

2. Iberia (as the most westerly Med. area)

3. A south German/Austrian/Hungary sample to represent central Europe

4. You could also have an isles and a Scandinavian group which surely should have less variance. Maybe worth including because if their variance is higher than the above there is clearly something wrong.

NB France is too complicated (unless very carefully divided) o include as it includes both Med. areas and areas that link to west-cenrral Europe and areas linked to the northern European plain.

I feel some effort needs to be made to tease more information out of the S116* group as it is an important phyogenetic link and the most geographcially widespread group that coveres a wider area than other groups like L21 and S28 which seem to be more geographically patterned.  S116 must have occurred in a place where (hopefully) S116 is still present as a minority in an area which also has the parental upstream forms.  That stands to reason.  One overlap country would seem to be Italy but there may be others elsewhere.

So, I wonder if our more statsitically gifted list members would consider looking into this? 

all the best,


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