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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1266093884


From: "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] FTDNA v. ISOGG R1b haplotree comparison updated
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:44:44 -0500
References: <c160.1fac0e.38a863f2@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <c160.1fac0e.38a863f2@aol.com>


So, what name do you think would be preferable for those who are L226/S168? I'm
not taking sides here, I have no idea what is correct. I'd just like a short
descriptor for the group that would be recognizable -- and accurate.

Diana

> -----Original Message-----
> From: On Behalf Of
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 3:22 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] FTDNA v. ISOGG R1b haplotree comparison updated
>
> In a message dated 2/13/2010 12:52:05 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> I was just looking into this. From Wikipedia:
>
> Commonly referred to as Irish Type III, it is concentrated
> in central
> western Ireland and associated with the Dál gCais kindred...
>
> ...also Dal Cais or the Dalcassians) were a dynastic group
> of related
> septs located in northMunster who rose to political
> prominence in the
> early medieval era in Ireland. They are desceded from Cormac
> Cas, or
> Cas mac Conall Echlúath, hence the term "Dál", meaning "portion" or
> "share" of Cas...
>
> I wonder how the O'Loughlins of Burren in Clare with their
> Red Branch
> pedigree fit into the Dal Cas genealogical scheme? They too
> are Irish Type III
> or at least the available samples are. It seems the Irish
> Type III might
> take in more than just the descendants of Cas. Or perhaps the
> pedigrees are
> just so much genealogical fiction. There does seem to be some
> geographical significance to the cluster.
>
> The Dal Cais (Irish Type III) are connected to the
> Eoghanachta in the
> pedigrees. These are thought to be Irish Type II but seldom
> discussed. Is
> this just more genealogical fiction?
>
> The latest Trinity college article (L2008) explored the subject.
>
> "Although the question to be addressed here (evidence
> of patrilineal kinship within the Eoganacht and Dal
> Cais) is similar to that of the Uı´ Neill in the Northwest
> of Ireland (Moore et al., 2006),"
>
> "It is also incidentally evidence against
> later claims that the Dal Cais and Eoganacht had a
> shared founding ancestor; a claim widely dismissed as
> politically motivated 10th century revisionism designed to
> legitimize the rise in regional power of the Dal Cais over
> the Eoganacht (Byrne, 2001)."
>
> CONCLUSION
>
> "Although many additional early medieval Irish population
> units remain to be investigated, it seems clear that
> there was no standard patrilineal kinship structure to
> these entities. Thus, although the Uı Neill and Eoganacht
> are often thought of as major contemporary rivals
> from the North and South of the island respectively,
> genetic evidence combined with surname information
> suggest they were founded, established and perhaps lead
> by different means and this may reflect wider differences
> in organization of Irish tribal societies."
>
> The same Trintiy study failed to detect a strong modal for
> the Irish Type
> III in their samples. But as Dennis Wiright pointed out in
> his JOGG paper
> they used only 17 markers which wasn't sufficient to
> establish the modal.
>
> Anyone who wants to can read the Trinity article at this link:
>
> _http://www.irishtype3dna.org/McEvoy2008.pdf_
> (http://www.irishtype3dna.org/McEvoy2008.pdf)
>
> You can find Dennis Wright's article here:
>
> _http://www.jogg.info/51/index.html_
> (http://www.jogg.info/51/index.html)
>
>
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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