Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1266143437

From: "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] FTDNA v. ISOGG R1b haplotree comparison updated
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:30:37 -0000
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In-Reply-To: <>

Dennis said:

At the moment, Dalcassian is the best description for what we see in the DNA
results, both STR and SNP and no doubt, some pedigree
manipulation has taken place in the past to engineer a connection with
powerful families.
There are some O'Loughlins, and other non-Dalcassian families that show the
Irish Type III STR signature, and this could be
explained by the common practice for followers of Medieval leaders to take
their clan leader's name to show their allegiance.


I would add that there are collectively more non-Dalcassian names with the
Irish Type III signature than Dalcassian. And those names connected to the
O'Brien dynasty also contain many, if not more, haplotypes which are not the
Dalcassian Irish Type III. This is similarly evident amidst the recognized
Eoghanacht tribes in Munster, as well as the Connachta tribes of the north
who have recorded descent from Niall of the Nine Hostages, where the most
common O'Neill haplotype is not NWI.

We had The O'Donoghue of the Glens (Irish Type II) tested for L226, and as
Dennis explained, that lineage is negative for L226. Both he and The
O'Brien have uncontested pedigrees in their respective tribes. According to
the historical tracts, they are supposed to have been descended from
brothers, living roughly around the time of Christ.

Since there are still so many factors in choosing how to calculate an MRCA,
from mutation rates, to counting mutations, to years per generation, to
which markers to use in so calculating, I remain unconvinced of the level of
accuracy of anyone's figures (please, no offense to anyone), but my opinion
is that with such distinctively different haplotypes, let alone the presence
of a defining SNP, I doubt that there is any common ancestor between the
Eoghanacht and Dalcassians within the timeframe of their supposed common

Nevertheless, the historical name of Dalcassian is a valid one, regardless
of its pedigree, and I agree with Dennis that it is an appropriate label to
give the L226 subclade.


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