Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1266202776

From: "Anatole Klyosov" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Variance Assessment wrt back and parallel mutations
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:59:36 -0500
References: <>

>From: David Ewing <>
>I hesitate to post the images Anatole sent me
without his permission...

No problem, David, it is yours.

>It (the tree) shows nodes, branches and the locations of the
terminal haplotypes, but does not label the branches with mutations.

There was no any need for me, ever... All haplotypes are numbered and are
easily located on the tree. Branches cannot be labeled since they are often
a matter of interpretation. It the machine would label branches for me, I
would have turned this option off.

>Anatole has repeatedly reassured us that there is no need to worry about
>parallel mutations, but 7 of the 21 mutations in this fraction of the tree
>he sent to
me are parallel mutations, which is a full third of them.

Why wouldn't you call them "perpendicular" mutations? What sense do you
attribute to those mutations, different from any other mutations? They might
belong to a certain lineage within a family, in that case they would form a
separate branch. Among those 509 of L21 haplotypes there are probably plenty
of those "parallel" mutations, however, they all are described by the
first-order dynamics, and present an uncomplicated case. What is so special
in those "parallel" mutations?

>... so we will be able to demonstrate that although Anatole does not
>believe parallel mutations happen very often...

It is NOT what I said. I said that back mutations do not contribute into a
TMRCA calculations during the first 26 generations, and contribute very
little, within the margin of error up to 2,000 ybp. Regarding "parallel"
mutations I only said (or implied) that I do not want to pay attention at
them because they are non-issue. If they cause separate branch formation,
fine, I just analyze that branch. I do not call them "parallel" since they
are just mutations, as anything else.


Anatole Klyosov

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