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From: "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Sorting the Irish via DNA
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:06:27 -0000
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John asked:

How broad is L226? Has anyone
been tested for it to date other than Irish Type III types?

--------------------

I'm sure Dennis has better statistics than I, but, yes, others have been
tested, I believe from most if not all of the other Irish clusters - and
found wanting.

I wonder how likely it is that when DYS459a/b [8/9] and DYS464 [13/13/15/17]
(perhaps just one of the four and a RecLoh) mutated - the main signature of
the Irish Type III - they got an SNP as a bonus?

--------------------

John also commented:

I have to wonder why only four Irish modals have been discovered to date,
covering basically the UI Neill and Connachta (m222), the Eoghanachta
(Irish type II), the Dal Cas (Irish Type III) and the Leinster cluster
(Lagin)It
may not be a coincidence that these groups were the most important
chieftains in the four provinces of Ireland as described in a history of
Ireland I
read recently. Nothing much is known of the early origins of the Dal
Cas...

-----------------------------------

That's because there 'were' no early origins of the Dal Cas/Dalcassians. It
wasn't until Brian Boru's older brother, Mathgamain, was attempting to gain
prominence that they began to claim descent from Cas, brother to Eoghan Mór
and another son of Olioll Ollum. Almost all historians discussing this
claim consider it pure fabrication, to elevate their lineage and provide
greater justification for their usurping the dominance of power of the
Eoghanacht in Munster. Remember that their tribe was originally from the
Deisi (meaning vassal) of Wexford. Tradition says they were sent to the
west to hold the Clare territory for the Eoghanacht by Aonghus Mac Nad
Fraoich (Eoghanacht) in the 5th century. Their Clare group was called the
Deisi Beg (Beg meaning little).

Now, having said that, it must be noted that there are currently no Irish
Type III in Dennis' database from Wexford, which is not without
significance. My own feeling has always been that the Eoghanacht would have
sent one of their own lieutenants to lead these Deisi, which would explain
the presence of several O'Donoghues and O'Mahoney's (another Eoghanacht
name) with an Irish Type III haplotype. Why didn't they (the O'Briens) then
just say they were Eoghanacht? Well, they did want to usurp them. I could
go on, but it would be digressing from the genetic aspect of all this.

-------------------------

John also said,

I have seen one other Irish modal listed but it doesn't seem to match much
of anything.

Why would this be?

-------------------------

I wonder that myself, and asked about it on the list last month but got no
replies. A Ysearch of its modal - UWM64 - shows such a motley crew that it
doesn't seem particularly Irish.

Elizabeth



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