Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1266375243

From: "Tim Janzen" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] : variance of S116*
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:54:03 -0800
In-Reply-To: <>

Dear Alan,
I agree with your comments below. The problem is that I don't have
enough haplotypes to break Eastern Europe up into smaller sub-groupings for
analysis. The Karl Graber haplotype (kit #12728) may actually be Swiss
rather than from Eastern Europe since there is a large group of Swiss
Mennonites Grabers who went to Russia who were originally from Switzerland.
Some of the other haplotypes in the Eastern Europe group aren't associated
with a specific country, so I can't place them into a smaller sub-grouping.
Hopefully with time we will get more R-P312/S116* haplotypes from Eastern
Europe that can be better categorized by country so that further analysis
would be feasible. That said, I did an intraclade TMRCA analysis for you by
creating two sub-groupings:

1. 5 67-marker samples from Poland, Bohemia and Lithuania (kits 97920,
N17254, 73467, 104128, and 109663)
10 slow markers: 6531
10 slow medium markers:5275
10 medium markers: 5087
10 medium fast markers:1338
10 fast markers: 2552
50 markers:2738
10 YHRD markers using YHRD mutation rates: 4068
24 slow markers: 7742

2. 3 67-marker samples from Ukraine (kits 150177, 1401, 153495)
10 slow markers: 4535
10 slow medium markers:7326
10 medium markers: 1514
10 medium fast markers: 4646
10 fast markers: 2234
50 markers:3145
10 YHRD markers using YHRD mutation rates: 3229
24 slow markers: 4856

I don't think we have enough haplotypes in these two sub-groupings to draw
any firm conclusions as to whether the probable area of origin of
R-P312/S116* in was in NE Europe, SE Europe, Russia, or Ukraine.


-----Original Message-----
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Alan R
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] : variance of S116*


I had a look and that system seems common sense.  The only one which
(probably because it is such a big area) might suffer badly from being
treated as a single block is eastern Europe.  I think in terms of prehistory
before the area largely (but far from all) became a huge Slavic speaking
block you could say that area was divided up in a complex and ever changing
way.  So, there could be considerable differences in the history of
S116* across those areas.  It would be interesting to know if there was a
major difference in ages of S116* within subsections of eastern Europe. 


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